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Old 01-04-2016, 12:19 PM   #41
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Yeah, I just cant believe those two got Life Sentences based on that evidence. To me thats insane. There was tons of doubt.

But even more damning in my opinion is the original 1985 case that was horribly bungled and some could say there is sufficient evidence that while he may not have been framed the police and sheriff's department were hardly interested in 'Justice' of any kind and there were absolutely no consequences or discipline of any kind for any of the law enforcement agents involved.

The results of which left these officers completely free to have a conflict in the next investigation.

The thing that gets me is that when the Insurance Company for the County performed their own investigation they considered it negligence outside of normal operations and refused to cover any legal settlement.

Further, I cannot believe that there was no documentation regarding signed approval from a parent or guardian for Fassbender and his associate to interrogate Brendan without representation.

Police: "We said she could come in and she declined."

Mother: "They wouldnt let me in."

Do they a signed authorization from you indicating that you waived his right to representation? No? Sounds to me like a confession that should be inadmissible.

Um. Thats kind of a big deal. Not to mention what kind of person watched the tape of that interrogation and thinks to themselves "oh yeah, this is totally legit."

Watching Brendan's cross-examination was painful.

My favourite 'character' has to have been Dean Strang. I thought he was intelligent and actually attempting to ascertain the truth. Krantz was a moron who basically won out on the favour of being 'the police.'

The whole thing seems insane to me. It is so crazy I have a hard time believing it.
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:16 PM   #42
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Read This: The damning evidence against Steven Avery that Making A Murderer ignored

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-d...making--230224

'Making a Murderer' Footage 'Manipulated,' Says Manitowoc Sheriff

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/...eriff-20160104

14 pieces of troubling evidence Netflix' "Making a Murderer" left out

http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articl...instavery.html

[I don't know anything about this show]
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:08 PM   #43
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Read This: The damning evidence against Steven Avery that Making A Murderer ignored

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-d...making--230224

[I don't know anything about this show]
You should watch the series before randomly believing the internet, a lot of that was brought up in the documentary or things related to that were brought up.

Quote:
In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.
Talked about some part of this, it was a junk yard and auto repair shop they sold lots of vehicles I would imagine. People who get service they like tend to request those over.

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Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.
Just the way this is written it is trying to sell you on what they believe, I could see this being malicious / creepy or innocent. They talked a bit about this as well.

Quote:
The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
Heavily talked about, almost an entire episodes worth about how the bullet was found and the how it would be impossible to clean up the scene of the garage with all the blood since it was so cluttered with stuff so fast. There was suspicions this bullet was planted.

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Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).
Never touched on, could be innocent and could be relevant. The girlfriend issue was touched on as she had a drinking problem and was sent to jail for drinking and driving.

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Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant
This is a personal opinion, if police planted the blood, I easily believe they went further. Also they talked about how out of place the car seemed, most the way. They also touched on this evidence as well in the series but I could see how someone missed them mentioning it. I would also believe that police if they planted evidence would tried to make the car seem like it's in place at a junk yard and ended up making it seem out of place.

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There’s additional info in there, as well, like evidence that Halbach’s Palm Pilot and camera were found in Avery’s burn barrel
Personal effects were touched on by the TV series but not exactly what, there was also suspicion that some of the evidence found in the burn barrel was moved.

Again I'm not saying he's a nice guy or innocent just that this article is garbage.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:14 PM   #44
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I also wish they'd spent more time on the fact that the two women who found the car in the junk-yard did it in about 20 minutes. That place was HUGE, there were thousands of cars there and there is a video interview with Steven indicating that someone had told him that the police had placed the car there.

And thats not even getting into the fact that the car was on the far side of the property, on a ridge, right near the car-compactor.

So some person says the car was placed there and then two random women who were 'Guided by God' found a needle in a haystack in barely 20 minutes.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:17 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Krovikan View Post
You should watch the series before randomly believing the internet, a lot of that was brought up in the documentary or things related to that were brought up.
I didn't say I believed anything. I have no opinion. These articles keep showing up on my Facebook.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:25 PM   #46
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nm, just derails the discussions.

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Old 01-04-2016, 02:31 PM   #47
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"I don't know anything about this show", yet you are spamming misleading information that anyone who watched the show would know is just that misleading and contains massive inaccuracies. Just because it shows up on your Facebook feed doesn't mean you have to copy it here.
Okay, but its just an article man. It may be a garbage article, but if the internet were devoid of garbage articles it'd be empty. Except for the porn.

I like the discussion that it generates. He posted it and you refuted its points. That was the point.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:38 PM   #48
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What was with Brendans lawyer Len?

Talk about a slimy lawyer.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:43 PM   #49
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I also wish they'd spent more time on the fact that the two women who found the car in the junk-yard did it in about 20 minutes. That place was HUGE, there were thousands of cars there and there is a video interview with Steven indicating that someone had told him that the police had placed the car there.

And thats not even getting into the fact that the car was on the far side of the property, on a ridge, right near the car-compactor.

So some person says the car was placed there and then two random women who were 'Guided by God' found a needle in a haystack in barely 20 minutes.
To be fair, if I was looking in a junk yard for a car that was missing and it was suspected to be involved in a criminal affair the car compactor would be a good place to start as tools to destroy evidence would be my first though. So if I was a search party leader that would be where I would tell them to start.

What I found strange is why it was so close to the compactor and why the evidence was destroy, the entire prosecutions case was about them destroying evidence. They are a scrape yard and they don't destroy the biggest piece, puzzling to me.
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:55 PM   #50
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To be fair, if I was looking in a junk yard for a car that was missing and it was suspected to be involved in a criminal affair the car compactor would be a good place to start as tools to destroy evidence would be my first though. So if I was a search party leader that would be where I would tell them to start.

What I found strange is why it was so close to the compactor and why the evidence was destroy, the entire prosecutions case was about them destroying evidence. They are a scrape yard and they don't destroy the biggest piece, puzzling to me.
You and me, maybe, but two random women from Rural Wisconsin zeroing in on the key piece of evidence like heat-seeking missiles?

And I agree, they ran a scrap yard, the idea that they didnt crush the car is borderline incomprehensible.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:03 PM   #51
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You and me, maybe, but two random women from Rural Wisconsin zeroing in on the key piece of evidence like heat-seeking missiles?

And I agree, they ran a scrap yard, the idea that they didnt crush the car is borderline incomprehensible.
True but most of these searches I have heard of are lead by police / ex-police officers. So I suspect their search patterns weren't there own, and directed by someone. They didn't really have much discussion on who was leading the searches, they talked about the family spokesmen but I doubt he was more then a figure head. If I was the police I wouldn't want some random person to lead their own search and cause more issues in the case.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:10 PM   #52
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True but most of these searches I have heard of are lead by police / ex-police officers. So I suspect their search patterns weren't there own, and directed by someone. They didn't really have much discussion on who was leading the searches, they talked about the family spokesmen but I doubt he was more then a figure head. If I was the police I wouldn't want some random person to lead their own search and cause more issues in the case.
But thats exactly what happened in this case. Thats what it makes it even weirder.

Halback's Ex-Boyfriend led a militia-esque civilian search party and initially the WHOLE YARD was searched just by these two random women.

These two searched the whole yard before the police did.

No direction, no police, just two women searching a huge scrap-yard and hitting paydirt almost immediately.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:33 PM   #53
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Not to mention the Lady who found the car was the ONLY person who was given a digital camera out of all the search party... At some point coincidence just doesn't do a justice.
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Old 01-04-2016, 03:47 PM   #54
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You and me, maybe, but two random women from Rural Wisconsin zeroing in on the key piece of evidence like heat-seeking missiles?

And I agree, they ran a scrap yard, the idea that they didnt crush the car is borderline incomprehensible.
It's hard to know what's really going on with the Avery family. Their intelligence and common sense levels can generously be described as sub-par.

However, that still doesn't explain the supposedly great lengths Avery went through to hide evidence, only to leave the vehicle in plain site, but in a place that it could easily have been disposed of.

Avery cleans his fingerprints and all blood from the scene with expert fashion, but is then negligent enough to leave the car in plain sight with his blood on it? It's possible he was going to strip the car later for profit/parts. That not the smartest plan, but Avery's behaviour was definitely erratic enough for that to be in the realm of possibilities. Avery's being both totally with it and supposedly at the same time totally irrational is part of what makes this case so interesting.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:28 PM   #55
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For me, I kinda stopped believing him when the EDTA(?) test came back negative. I know his lawyers had a ready-made excuse for it, but it just seems to me that it would be insanely difficult to actually plan this thing down to the level of detail and execute it as flawlessly as they were accused of doing. Occam's razor and all.
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:50 PM   #56
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For me, I kinda stopped believing him when the EDTA(?) test came back negative. I know his lawyers had a ready-made excuse for it, but it just seems to me that it would be insanely difficult to actually plan this thing down to the level of detail and execute it as flawlessly as they were accused of doing. Occam's razor and all.
For me, it seemed odd that the EDTA test would take months and then all of a sudden as the case is going bad they get it ASAP. They also fail to publish their results, also the FBI representative seemed dodgy to me for what they showed. Also the claims of the test not being accurate was never really refuted and not having an independent lab verify the results when the FBI lab has lost a lot of credibility recently:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...310_story.html
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:54 PM   #57
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For me, I kinda stopped believing him when the EDTA(?) test came back negative. I know his lawyers had a ready-made excuse for it, but it just seems to me that it would be insanely difficult to actually plan this thing down to the level of detail and execute it as flawlessly as they were accused of doing. Occam's razor and all.
What I find weird about the EDTA test is they never established that it actually worked. Shouldn't they have tested the vial? As far as I can tell they only tested three of six swabs taken from the RAV. Don't you need to establish a control?
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:01 PM   #58
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While I am almost sure there was police shananigans, some of the other side stretches are just as bad.

The whole no blood in the garage. Could they not have killed her on a tarp, in the trunk of another car they crushed, etc.

The nephew confessing on multiple occasions. Sure the confession should not have been court worthy/evidence worthy, but it seemed even his mom knew he was involved in some of their talks.

Purely guessing I think both of them were involved (and maybe even the brother and their father, they seemed sketchy)

Ties her to the bed and sexually assaulted, took to garage and shot her. Put body into back of Rav 4 and drove to gravel pit and dumped the car. Burned body at gravel pit. Came back to house, and burnt her personal belongings in the barrel.

Cops come and move the car/plant car, plant key, probably plant remains (and miss a few)

All that being said, the failure of the justice system in this case is un-arguable. Even if they killed the girl they evidence was so fubared it created a ton of reasonable doubt.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:53 PM   #59
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For me, it seemed odd that the EDTA test would take months and then all of a sudden as the case is going bad they get it ASAP. They also fail to publish their results, also the FBI representative seemed dodgy to me for what they showed. Also the claims of the test not being accurate was never really refuted and not having an independent lab verify the results when the FBI lab has lost a lot of credibility recently:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...310_story.html
But this gets back to my point about you now needing more than one or two people to be involved in the cover-up, and there's no motive for the FBI to be involved in a cover-up.
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Old 01-04-2016, 06:05 PM   #60
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What I find weird about the EDTA test is they never established that it actually worked. Shouldn't they have tested the vial? As far as I can tell they only tested three of six swabs taken from the RAV. Don't you need to establish a control?
That's a real issue for me. Especially with all the conjecture about the test and its validity and reliability, you'd think they would have had to prove, on the vial itself (using the same amount as that in the samples) that the test was 'good'. And why wouldn't the defense request this even if the DA didn't?

Aside from the evidence that was allegedly planted (keys, blood, bullet), the biggest issue for me is the lack of the victim's DNA ANYWHERE at the acreage. If we are to believe the DA's version of events, there would have had to have been some transfer of evidence from victim to accused/scene. To believe that a person was tied to a bed, raped, violently assaulted, then murdered without a shred of evidence that ANY of that had taken place is truly unbelievable.
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