Calgary Vipers = Joke

[MJM]

Originally Posted by valo403

I used to live in a city with a class A team, which is admittedly a better class of ball simply because it's filled with guys who are on the way up, not on the way out. I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I went to a game simply for the $2 beers on thursdays and wound up going when I could thereafter. I should also mention that I was joined at that first Thursday game by about 1500-2000 fellow university students.

Hey wait, isn't foothills right across from the university? You think that a promotion along those lines might draw in some students or other young people in the area? People don't care about the game, they care about having a good time. That area is full of young people even in the summer, show them a good time and they'll come back.

It's just a small example of an organization being completely oblivious to a captivate fan base sitting right at their doorstep.

My fiancee said the exact same thing at last week's game. Not $2 dollar beers, but if they had kept their concession prices at last year's level and marketted it to the University kids they likely would bring a couple more hundred bodies in a game. My fiancee could careless about baseball. She just comes with me because she knows I like baseball and she can get a tan while out in the sun. Needless to say she won't be "going for a tan" at the Vipers games with me anymore. I sent her to the concession stand for two hot dogs (the small pedly variety, not a Barbequed sausage), one fry, and two waters and it costed her like $20 she was rather enraged about the price increases.

Baseball isn't like hockey or football in Canada. I'd say 30 to 40% of the people there could actually careless about the game. They are just out for a day in the nice weather. When you start these people around $4 for a bottle of water, they are quickly going to find somewhere else to spend that beautiful day, and you certainly aren't going to attract any new ones.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

To be fair there were plenty of high scoring games when the Cannons played here too with smaller field specs and high altitude air. A pitcher was good on the Cannons if they could keep their ERA under 4.50. With regard to the errors, often it's not even the plays that get scored an error that illuminate the lack of skill. When I go to the games the lack of range of the infielders is very evident. It's more difficult to turn 2, poor throws from third base, and just plain a lot more ground balls that get out of the infield compared to higher levels of ball.

Compared to the brief stint of the Calgary Outlaws and (although beloved) the Dawgs the quality of ball is a few notches better. I would put the Vipers on par with Single A ball. There's nothing wrong with single A ball, but I would prefer to watch single A quality ball involving promising prospects on their way up the ranks than never-has-and never will-beens.

There's no depth to the pitching in the Golden or Northern League though. Sure every team has one guy that's pretty good (Greusel with the Vipers), but after the first pitcher or two it gets pretty bad. Especially the bullpen. There's a lot more depth in the pitching in Single A, and as you said, these are improving, not getting worse or being stagnant like the guys in these independent leagues.

[malcolmk14]

I'm sure at some point Vipers management is going to come across this thread so let's give them a quick lesson in highly elastic products.

The degree to which a demand or supply curve reacts to a change in price is the curve's "elasticity". Elasticity varies among products because some products may be more essential to the consumer. Products that are necessities are more insensitive to price changes because consumers would continue buying these products despite price increases. Conversely, a price increase of a good or service that is considered less of a necessity will deter more consumers because the opportunity cost of buying the product will become too high.

Let's recap and simplify. Nobody in this city cares about baseball enough to pay exorbitant costs to see it. If you raise the price of going to a game, you're going to significantly decrease the demand for your product among a majority of your fanbase (casual fans). Baseball is a highly elastic product in Calgary. This is not Yankee Stadium.

In order to increase the demand for your product, you need to DECREASE prices. It's an inverse relationship. This is simple economics. Anyone running your team should be aware of this already.

Good marketing can take a mediocre product and make it a great product. This should be your focus. Not lame PR stunts like trading a player for bats. That is not going to put people in the seats, it's just going to make you look like an even bigger moron than you already do.

Edit: To be clear, your product is not and should not be baseball with a team like this. Your product is a day out at the ballpark with a frosty beverage and a sausage.

[Burninator]

So what is the current price of beer?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Burninator

So what is the current price of beer?

I haven't been to the park yet this year, but I believe it's close to $6.

[worth]

It's $5.50 for a can.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Burninator

So what is the current price of beer?

$5.50. I believe that's a $1.50 more than last year (maybe $1.00, not sure if Big Rock was $4 or $4.50 for a can last year - some games they had beer for $3.50 I believe called Roughneck Ale).

Price of beer isn't terrible, it's more the ridiculous food price increases that has me eerked. They also have increased their beer and a sausage combo by like $2.50 and it's not even a spoulombo anymore.

Essentially all concession items now are very similar to Flames concession prices.

[flamesdyehard]

Anyone who lives south of Glenmore Trail should just head to Okotoks to see the Dawgs. The atmosphere there is phenomenal, the stadium is almost full, the concessions are very reasonable. The Baseball is almost as good as Vipers baseball and a big plus is that the players are generally players who are getting better. The management team understands that the experience is important and they treat the fans great. The president quite often can be found shaking fans hands on the way out and thanking them for coming. It really blows a Vipers game out of the water. Anyone who lives in South Calgary can be in okotoks as easy as foothills stadium and the Stadium in okotoks is much nicer.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MJM

How do you not see these errors? The scores at these games are like 12-8 every game. This is the direct result of errors and absolutely garbage pitching throughout the league. Sure a 12-8 game makes for some excitement, but is certainly a testament to the skill level of the league.

That is part and parcel with indy ball though. Pitchers with potential get picked up by major league teams PDQ. All of the indy leagues - the Northern League, the AA, the Can-Am, the Frontier League, and the Golden League. Same issue with all of them. They are all hitters leagues.

That said, high scoring games in Calgary have always been the norm. Both the Mariners and the Marlins routinely left their best pitching prospects in AA rather than have the altitude of Calgary ruin their confidence. Cannons games were every bit the slugfest that Vipers games are.

As noted, the ballpark experience is what sells. I don't have a huge issue with some of the gimmicky stuff though. That is also part and parcel with indy ball. Things like that do get people talking, and people who talk are more likely to check things out than people who don't. However, as everyone else mentions, the Vipers need to sell the entire event, not just baseball.

[flamesdyehard]

It's true, teams are always looking for pitchers, but hitter are a dime a dozen. Especially most of the ones in Indy ball. The reason they hit so well is because the pitching is terrible. Put these guys up against major league pitchers and they wouldn't be very good.

[604flames]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Victoria just got the Seals this year, and although I rarely listen to the radio out here, I know how they've been doing and that their first home series is this weekend. I'll probably go check them out this Sunday.

A good buddy of mine is doing the play-by-play for them this season.

[StealthOiler]

This past Tuesday night I was able to check out my first Vipers game with a buddy. I finally decided to go because I was starved for baseball and just being back in Foothills disappointed me because I (like every other baseball fan in the city) misses the Cannons terribly.

Anyway, my very first thought after sitting down in my seat is that they need to hire a new DJ. With 200-500 people in the stands, it gets dead quiet and you can hear discussions going on with the people across the stadium from you. Maybe reasons like this is why the heckling seemed to be more successful...

But they would rarely play anything, and when they did it was just a replay of the same two or three clips that they have. Other people noticed it, too, because they began yelling out to get some actual music or organs playing (given the silence in the stadium, I'm sure our concerns were loud and clear).

If I missed the Cannons before, I do even more now. Sitting in a pathetically empty stadium made me thinks of the happier days when Foothills was full with loud baseball fans. That was an experience.

I'll probably check out a few more games this year simply based on the fact that I need some baseball in my system. Are weekend crowds better?

At least the parking was free. That was unexpected. But I spent my savings very quickly on a beer and hot dog.

If nothing else, the game cemented my plans to head to Seattle in a few months to check out a Mariners/Jays series.

[bcb]

Get rid of the Vipers and bring back some sort of affiliated ball!

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by bcb

Get rid of the Vipers and bring back some sort of affiliated ball!

It's not gonna happen. Stop thinking about affiliated ball. Get over it. Its the indy Vipers or nothing.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Compare that with what's going in Victoria right now and the Vipers look like an even bigger joke. Victoria just got the Seals this year, and although I rarely listen to the radio out here, I know how they've been doing and that their first home series is this weekend. I'll probably go check them out this Sunday.

Let me know how it is. I was going to do the same but after reading this thread it sounds like a pretty bush league, however the tickets are only like $14 so I'm curious what the concession prices are like there.

I was just reading the Times and they were saying about 4,000 showed up for the home opener. Not bad for Victoria! I am not the biggest baseball fan so I would be going just with a bunch of buddies to sit in the sun, drink and heckle. But we won't be going if it is $6 beers or $10 for burger and fries!

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by MJM

My fiancee said the exact same thing at last week's game. Not $2 dollar beers, but if they had kept their concession prices at last year's level and marketted it to the University kids they likely would bring a couple more hundred bodies in a game.

ball season kinda doesn't fit well with the university year. kind of a different dynamic on campus during the summer months.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by bcb

Get rid of the Vipers and bring back some sort of affiliated ball!

As noted, not at all likely to happen.

There are only three leagues anywhere close to Calgary:

The PCL, and our stadium is crap. Not even remotely possible until a new ballpark is built. There is also the problem of the PCL not wanting back into Canada, and certainly not back into Canada with a single team. The league whined enough as it was when it was just Edmonton in the league. So we'd have to go in as a pair, and the odds of buisness people in our two fine cities putting forward the cash for a new park in Calgary, and to buy two existing teams in the PCL are almost nil.

The Northwest League is A-Advanced. Not really any better than the GBL for overall calibre, but at least is kids on the way up. Spokane is the nearest market, and travel would be a complete pain. Honestly, Victoria would get an NWL team before Calgary on geography alone.

Finally, Pioneer league. We used to be a PL team, back when Medicine Hat (and for a time, Lethbridge) also had teams. It's basically high school ball. Well below the calibre of the Vipers. Not a likely candidate either.

Its indy ball or bust, really.

[HOOT]

I heard the Texas Rangers were being sold....Calgary Rangers anyone?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I was just reading the Times and they were saying about 4,000 showed up for the home opener. Not bad for Victoria! I am not the biggest baseball fan so I would be going just with a bunch of buddies to sit in the sun, drink and heckle. But we won't be going if it is $6 beers or $10 for burger and fries!

Yeah, I was surprised when I read about the attendance for the opener. My girlfriend's brother went and said the concession lines were ridiculous. He said he missed two innings just getting a beer and a dog. I've got tickets to the game today at 1:30 so I'll let you know.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

ball season kinda doesn't fit well with the university year. kind of a different dynamic on campus during the summer months.

There are still many students living in the area over the summer. Most of the games I've gone to have been with friends who were going to U of C and stayed in their places over the summer.