Better rebuild situation 2013 or 2024?

[CFO]

I think in 2 years Rasmus is captain.

[Vinny01]

I think Wolf has potential to be a superstar and goalie is a far more coveted position than a winger.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CFO

I think in 2 years Rasmus is captain.

Depends on how things go. If we make good trades, win a lottery this team could be on the rise the last year of his contract. But I also think he could be moved for a ton, and I could see him asked to be traded if we are at the bottom of the standings.

[Braden]

This question should be asked again post trade deadline. I hope Conroy does this right.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by CFO

In 2 years this team could be young and exciting as long as they don't mess up trades.

Wolf takes over in net.

Quality bottom 6 players who are young.

The D will be revamped.

Flames just need to draft 1 impact player and sign 1 impact player.

I would say they need to draft 3-5 impact players. Including at least 1 elite superstar. Preferably 2.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by redmile04

I dont disagree at all, and i know you are saying what they could do and what they could be. But, its the flames at the end of the day, what you mentioned about drafting is not challenging for a lot of franchises but for the flames it will be...

I'd say the Flames are top ten in the last ten years for value / draft capital.

Drafting hasn't been their issue at all.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think Wolf has potential to be a superstar and goalie is a far more coveted position than a winger.

It would sure be nice if we had a goalie that played a decade here. Last one was Kipper.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd say the Flames are top ten in the last ten years for value / draft capital.

Drafting hasn't been their issue at all.

Probably too soon to tell on the picks in the 2020’s but they got some solid value outside the 1st round in the 2010’s. Off the top of my head: Gaudreau, Kulak, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Fox, and maybe Ruzicka, Pospisol, Pettersson, Wolf all turn into players.

[ForeverFlameFan]

As others have said, we were in a better position to rebuild in 2022 when our two franchise wingers left. However, better late than never and I am happy Conroy is holding firm to trading the pending UFAs that either don't want to be here or are asking too much than what they're worth holding on to.

Our scouting has been much better since the Feaster days, so for me it's a no brainer to rebuild/retool right now when we have young forwards like Pelletier, Coronato, Zary, Pospisil, defense of Poirier, Morin, Solovyov, and Wolf as a goalie. It's a good start, and more coming along the way if Conroy plays his cards right.

[Vinny01]

I am curious what type of plan pivot that Conroy is selling to ownership and what they will sign off on?

Will the team take the Ottawa route of trying to strip it all down to the studs and build it back up? Ottawa is in year 6 of their rebuild and need to get on a heater to get back in the race.

I think what we know now- the 4 pending UFA’s are going to be traded and not resigned. Do they go all futures? Realistically they could have 3 1st and 3 2nds going into next years draft and if they make all of those selections they could jump into the top 5-10’ teams in terms of prospect ranking. I do think Markstrom could be a guy with term that moves this season as well especially if he keeps his play up.

Right now see them keeping Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson, Weegar. If they really want to strip it down they should consider moving Andersson since he can bring back an actual haul. If they go this route it is hard to see this team turning things around in 3 years. Talking about where they were in 2013 they legitimately had a defensive pair that would lead the league in analytics with Brodie-Gio and they were a top pair in year 1 of the rebuild. Weegar-Andersson are not on that level but still a very good pair. If they want to turn it around quicker they will hold onto both of those guys.

The Wranglers continue to be an absolute top team in the AHL so maybe many still underrate their prospect base considering they picked up where they left off with Love leaving and even when Wolf doesn’t play they are lighting it up.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I was thinking last night if a GM looked at both situations which would be more appealing. I wonder if that Huberdeau contract is such a hindrance or would having bare cupboards be worse?

I think part of it will be having to swallow part of huberdeau’s contract to get rid of him. The current scenario can’t go on for 8 years.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think Wolf has potential to be a superstar and goalie is a far more coveted position than a winger.

I think there’s more parity in goaltending now than ever before. System defense, boxing out from the net front and limiting shooting lanes lends towards a positional blocking goaltender and that’s why you’ve seen guys like Talbot do decently well in the playoffs.

I take position player 10 times out of 10, winger included, over goaltender.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think there’s more parity in goaltending now than ever before. System defense, boxing out from the net front and limiting shooting lanes lends towards a positional blocking goaltender and that’s why you’ve seen guys like Talbot do decently well in the playoffs.

I take position player 10 times out of 10, winger included, over goaltender.

It’s actually harder than ever to play goalie, so if you have a good one, hold onto him.

Then make sure you have a second good goalie to spell him 30 games so he’s not useless in the post season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am curious what type of plan pivot that Conroy is selling to ownership and what they will sign off on?

Will the team take the Ottawa route of trying to strip it all down to the studs and build it back up? Ottawa is in year 6 of their rebuild and need to get on a heater to get back in the race.

I think what we know now- the 4 pending UFA’s are going to be traded and not resigned. Do they go all futures? Realistically they could have 3 1st and 3 2nds going into next years draft and if they make all of those selections they could jump into the top 5-10’ teams in terms of prospect ranking. I do think Markstrom could be a guy with term that moves this season as well especially if he keeps his play up.

Right now see them keeping Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson, Weegar. If they really want to strip it down they should consider moving Andersson since he can bring back an actual haul. If they go this route it is hard to see this team turning things around in 3 years. Talking about where they were in 2013 they legitimately had a defensive pair that would lead the league in analytics with Brodie-Gio and they were a top pair in year 1 of the rebuild. Weegar-Andersson are not on that level but still a very good pair. If they want to turn it around quicker they will hold onto both of those guys.

The Wranglers continue to be an absolute top team in the AHL so maybe many still underrate their prospect base considering they picked up where they left off with Love leaving and even when Wolf doesn’t play they are lighting it up.

They have to go futures - this is the NHL. It doesn’t work without a core of young talent that grows up together. Very few teams in the cap era have had success with mercenaries.

It took Colorado a decade to win a cup with MacKinnon. These things take time.

But if you have a talented group that’s played together for the first five years of their careers, the next five years are when you do your damage.

If you have the right superstars, the right coach, and the goaltending.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

As others have said, we were in a better position to rebuild in 2022 when our two franchise wingers left. However, better late than never and I am happy Conroy is holding firm to trading the pending UFAs that either don't want to be here or are asking too much than what they're worth holding on to.

Our scouting has been much better since the Feaster days, so for me it's a no brainer to rebuild/retool right now when we have young forwards like Pelletier, Coronato, Zary, Pospisil, defense of Poirier, Morin, Solovyov, and Wolf as a goalie. It's a good start, and more coming along the way if Conroy plays his cards right.

Feaster drafted Gaudreau and Monahan.

His 2011 draft of Sven, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit has the most number of NHL games played of any Flames draft class since 2000 (1,475 and counting).

He was a clown and had to go, but if he’d just drafted any of Tom Wilson, Teuvo Teravainen, Vasilevskiy, or Hertl at 14 instead trading down to make his stupid Jankowksi pick, he probably doesn’t get the axe from Burke and he gets to rebuild the team instead of Treliving.

There’s a timeline where that happened.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Feaster drafted Gaudreau and Monahan.

His 2011 draft of Sven, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit has the most number of NHL games played of any Flames draft class since 2000 (1,475 and counting).

He was a clown and had to go, but if he’d just drafted any of Tom Wilson, Teuvo Teravainen, Vasilevskiy, or Hertl at 14 instead trading down to make his stupid Jankowksi pick, he probably doesn’t get the axe from Burke and he gets to rebuild the team instead of Treliving.

There’s a timeline where that happened.

I don't really think Feaster had much to do with Gaudreau (or any other pick outside the first round). His fingerprints were all over Jankowski's pick though.

And 2011 is kind of horrific to think about in hindsight. He drafted Baertschi, but not Miller or Oleksiak. Granlund, but not Nieto or Edmundson. And, dammit, Kucherov was taken one freakin place after Wotherspoon.

[Vinny01]

While the picks are not final we have a much clearer position of where this team stands now vs when I created this thread early in the season. 5 of the 7 UFA’s from the end of last season were traded for younger players and picks. The Toffoli trade aged very well for Calgary, they knocked the Lindholm trade out of the park. Hanifin got them an unprotected pick a couple of years into the future and an intriguing older prospect. Tanev brought back a prospect and a pick.

Flames will likely draft 9th but could pick 1, 2, 10, 11 depending on the lottery results. A win would be epic and accelerate the retool but they should be landing their top prospect with the 9th pick.

In 2013 Iggy, Kipper, and Bouw were moved/retired and there was a definitive passing of the guard and a new regime that was going to be established lead by Gio. Now we still have Backlund leading the way with guys like Weegar, Kadri, Huberdeau, Andersson, Coleman leading as the veteran group. Markstrom appears to be the next veteran on the way out. The flames pick twice in the first round of this draft and twice in the 2nd.

Very different scenarios. The Feaster/Trelviing tear down/build up got them to the playoffs in second full year after the tear down and it seems the ownership group wants a similar turnaround with the Conroy lead team. With Wolf, Zary, Coronato, Pospisil making various levels of impact this year and more prospects coming it seems like this regime is better set up for a turnaround but at the same time the lack of high end talent could make this a longer more painful rebuild unless they hit a draft out of the park (Dallas model) or they get lucky and win the lottery.

I am excited to see what this roster looks like after the draft and free agency. I do think the team is definitely in a better position to turn things around now than they were in 2013

[FlamesAddiction]

I think there is more intent to rebuild in 2024 and the realization by management that you need to take some time to do it right.

2013 was nothing more than trading three players and hoping for a quick turnaround. It didn't seem like there was much of a plan.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I know it can't be done, but the summer of 2022 was the best time for a rebuild.
It was, as natural of a spot as a team could find.

Exactly, then people would maybe hate Tkachuk like they should.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Feaster drafted Gaudreau and Monahan.

His 2011 draft of Sven, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Brossoit has the most number of NHL games played of any Flames draft class since 2000 (1,475 and counting).

He was a clown and had to go, but if he’d just drafted any of Tom Wilson, Teuvo Teravainen, Vasilevskiy, or Hertl at 14 instead trading down to make his stupid Jankowksi pick, he probably doesn’t get the axe from Burke and he gets to rebuild the team instead of Treliving.

There’s a timeline where that happened.

This whole alternate timeline thing needs to stop. It's beyond overused at this point.