Jankowski vs Bennett - Battle for the #3C?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I've said this in other threads, but I think Bennett is an LW long-term. Jankowski is already a better centre, IMO.

A player who has played only one year of professional hockey and who has taken a grand total of 13 shifts in the NHL is not "already a better centre" than Bennett.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A player who has played only one year of professional hockey and who has taken a grand total of 13 shifts in the NHL is not "already a better centre" than Bennett.

I think people notice is stat line more than his progression last year as a centre. He had a good start, a pretty bad middle and a good ending. I really liked what I saw from him on the defensive side of the ice as a centre in the last couple months.

In January I cringed watching him try and figure out his positioning in his own zone, but by the end of the season I thought he had a lot more awareness, better positioning, and good anticipation. He may not have put the points up as a centre, but I think he definitely showed a lot of progress in learning the role in the NHL and agree that there is no way that Jankowski is already a better centre. I expect big things from Bennett this year.

[Darkknight]

I feel like every offseason we are saying "Im expecting big things from Bennett this year." I think if we want him to be an offensive catalyst for this team he is a winger. I don't think he has the natural ability to play the defensive side of centre ice so if we want to maximize his offensive abilities I se him as a long term winger.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Both were on pace for 19 goals and 40 points up until game 35, then in game 36 Brouwer was hurt. Both had 17 points by game 35.

Backlund had 16 points
Frolik had 15 points
Monahan had 20 points
Gaudreau had 22 points (in 25 games)
Tkachuk had 18 points (in 31 games)

So yeah, Textcritic is bang on with his assessment as they were actually producing quite well when compared to the rest of the forwards, and drastically fell off that pace after Brouwer was hurt.

I could have sworn that Tkachuk was a major reason why they looked that good. Add Brouwer's injury and Tkachuk moving onto complete the 3M line and Bennett/Brouwer didn't have anybody to pull them along.

Somebody will have to check what Tkachuk's linemates were up until Brouwer's injury.

Edit: Took a quick look myself. Tkachuk only spent 60 minutes 5v5 with Bennett in the entire season so not much at all.

Also I'm stating the obvious but it's amazing how much of an anchor Brouwer was overall to Bennett.

[GranteedEV]

Reading this thread, I think that rather than one or the other, BOTH Jankowski and Bennett are being underrated in different ways.

These are two fantastic young natural centers that could be Backlund type talents - or better - in the primes of their careers, yet the premise of the thread is that we have to pick one or the other, infallibly. Would anyone here want to move Backlund to the wing "just because"? Probably not because of how well he has developed over the last half-decade in the NHL.

It's true that Backlund and Monahan are already a solid 1-2 punch, but they're not exactly Malkin and Crosby. I'd leave the window open for all four guys to fill out the roster based on merit. A lot can happen - injuries, line-chemistry, matchups (who's best suited to match McDavid? Getzlaf? Crosby? It's not always going to Backlund, even though Backlund is amazing). The best teams don't decide who plays where in July. And I'm confident the Flames see Bennett as a natural center because he has shown a lot down the middle that certain people don't acknowledge due to their short-term focus on counting stats. Likewise Jankowski had been written off by many for the first three years following his draft because he didn't follow a conventional development path.

Patience people. These two kids are a huge part of this team's future, as centers.

[Clever_Iggy]

With the Flames depth at center, Treliving saying that he doesn't think a team can "over cook" prospects in the AHL and the Flames apparent desire to keep Bennett at center, unless the Flames want to start Jankowski on the wing, my guess is he starts in the AHL and is the first forward called up for injury.

I can't see the Flames moving Jankowski to the wing either.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

I feel like every offseason we are saying "Im expecting big things from Bennett this year." I think if we want him to be an offensive catalyst for this team he is a winger. I don't think he has the natural ability to play the defensive side of centre ice so if we want to maximize his offensive abilities I se him as a long term winger.

For those so quick to declare Bennett's run at center in the NHL to be over, and that he needs to be assigned as a winger - should go back and look at Mikael Backlund's development path at center. In his first three seasons with the Flames Backlund averaged about .30 PPG and after his first two seasons Bennett is averaging .39 PPG. I don't think anyone would argue that Backlund is one of the best two way centres in the NHL today nor would they say that being patient with his development was a mistake.

Bennett deserves the same consideration. After a couple of more seasons I expect any arguments about him being misutilized at center will fade.

[Darkknight]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

For those so quick to declare Bennett's run at center in the NHL to be over, and that he needs to be assigned as a winger - should go back and look at Mikael Backlund's development path at center. In his first three seasons with the Flames Backlund averaged about .30 PPG and after his first two seasons Bennett is averaging .39 PPG. I don't think anyone would argue that Backlund is one of the best two way centres in the NHL today nor would they say that being patient with his development was a mistake.

Bennett deserves the same consideration. After a couple of more seasons I expect any arguments about him being misutilized at center will fade.

I feel like with the highest pick in team history I think we should be aiming a bit higher than the trajectory of Backlund (nothing against Backs, he's one of my favourite players on the team) I just feel like Bennett can drive the play better and have a bigger impact as a winger. It's not that I don't think he can cut it as a centre but if you look at what draisaitl did after being shifted to wing it's hard to argue his offence isn't taking a hit to focus on the defensive side of centre ice.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

I feel like with the highest pick in team history I think we should be aiming a bit higher than the trajectory of Backlund (nothing against Backs, he's one of my favourite players on the team) I just feel like Bennett can drive the play better and have a bigger impact as a winger. It's not that I don't think he can cut it as a centre but if you look at what draisaitl did after being shifted to wing it's hard to argue his offence isn't taking a hit to focus on the defensive side of centre ice.

not sure we have anything to do with Bennett's ability nor his ability to reach that lofty projection you have for him.

As its stands, on the ice and from what i've seen on the ice, a gritty Backlund seems to be his ceiling (i've always said a Peca clone would be a HR... but thats really a 20/30 to 25/35 guy tops)...

I like Bennett, but even if you shifted him to the wing his ceiling is still not more that 25/35 imo we'll see though

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

I feel like with the highest pick in team history I think we should be aiming a bit higher than the trajectory of Backlund (nothing against Backs, he's one of my favourite players on the team)

Backlund may not have the most glamourous role offensively, but here is a list of centers who had

35%+ Defensive Zone Faceoffs Taken
50%+ Quality of Competition
50%+ on-ice CF%
25+ 5-on-5 Points
50%+ on-ice GF%

last year:



It's a short and highly valuable list. You really don't think these guys could score a few more points with some more offensive zone draws or softer line matching? But someone has to take the hard minutes. Even Toews had a guy like Kruger on two of his cup runs.

Beyond that, you're talking about things like power play points. I don't think it makes half a difference on the power play whether Bennett is playing center or LW at 5-on-5. Now whether Bennett, unlike Backlund, can get himself actual first unit PP time, remains to be seen, but that's a tall order on a team with Gaudreau and Monahan hogging the first unit PP.

I just feel like Bennett can drive the play better and have a bigger impact as a winger.

How many wingers have a bigger impact than the top centers on their teams? The list is probably Jamie Benn, and then I'm drawing a blank. Mark Stone?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

For those so quick to declare Bennett's run at center in the NHL to be over, and that he needs to be assigned as a winger - should go back and look at Mikael Backlund's development path at center. In his first three seasons with the Flames Backlund averaged about .30 PPG and after his first two seasons Bennett is averaging .39 PPG. I don't think anyone would argue that Backlund is one of the best two way centres in the NHL today nor would they say that being patient with his development was a mistake.

Bennett deserves the same consideration. After a couple of more seasons I expect any arguments about him being misutilized at center will fade.

It's not so much that I don't think Bennett can be a good centre - I do. It's fair to point to Backlund as an example of patience paying off.

Backlund's situation was different than Bennett's - when Backlund arrived, we had the mishmash of Lombardi, Jokinen, Langkow, Conroy, Stajan at centre. A bunch of aging vets who didn't get it done in their primes and were now being asked to get it done on the back nine of their careers.

The top two centres are now 23 and 28. The #3C is either going to be 23 or 21. The 4th line C is going to be a veteran or his designated replacement.

All of this is hypothetical, but if Jankowski plays a better C than Bennett in camp, it doesn't make sense to me that we keep either player on the 4th line. If I didn't know Bennett was already a terror on the wing, I'd be more hesitant, but we need the extra top line forward.

None of this means we can't keep developing Bennett as a centre, but for 2017-18, it may work out that he's best suited to be #1RW. I'm more comfortable with that than I am paying Ferland $2.5M+ because we want to pretend he's a 1st line player.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It's not so much that I don't think Bennett can be a good centre - I do. It's fair to point to Backlund as an example of patience paying off.

Backlund's situation was different than Bennett's - when Backlund arrived, we had the mishmash of Lombardi, Jokinen, Langkow, Conroy, Stajan at centre. A bunch of aging vets who didn't get it done in their primes and were now being asked to get it done on the back nine of their careers.

The top two centres are now 23 and 28. The #3C is either going to be 23 or 21. The 4th line C is going to be a veteran or his designated replacement.

All of this is hypothetical, but if Jankowski plays a better C than Bennett in camp, it doesn't make sense to me that we keep either player on the 4th line. If I didn't know Bennett was already a terror on the wing, I'd be more hesitant, but we need the extra top line forward.

None of this means we can't keep developing Bennett as a centre, but for 2017-18, it may work out that he's best suited to be #1RW. I'm more comfortable with that than I am paying Ferland $2.5M+ because we want to pretend he's a 1st line player.

To my knowledge Bennett has never played RW. If he ends up a winger it will likely be at LW.

[dammage79]

Bennet may be the better overall player but Jankowski is the better center. And I suspect that will be the case I'm the future. Again, the best possible comparison for the Flames and their centers are the Sharks with what they had rolling there for years. Couture and Pavelski are good center but play wing because if depth. But they also play center when it maximizes the teams strengths in situations. Bennett to the wing is a beautiful idea when you have 3 incredible well balanced and great centers. Jankowski will be center.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

None of this means we can't keep developing Bennett as a centre, but for 2017-18, it may work out that he's best suited to be #1RW. I'm more comfortable with that than I am paying Ferland $2.5M+ because we want to pretend he's a 1st line player.

Not to derail this thread, but Ferland may be just what the Flames are looking for at 1st line RW. If they have that guy in Ferland and can sign him for $2.5MM it would be the deal of the year for Treliving.

Ferland has earned a shot at top line RW, and Bennett has earned a shot at C for another year. I think we just need to sit back and see how it plays out.

[DJones]

I'm as big on jankowski as anyone but suggest he's already a better center than Bennet is ridiculous

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DJones

I'm as big on jankowski as anyone but suggest he's already a better center than Bennet is ridiculous

Really? He's already better at the integral parts of the position, face-off and two way play/defense and positioning. He's been better at it all throughout their respective developments. That's no slight on Bennett, he is the better player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I...None of this means we can't keep developing Bennett as a centre, but for 2017-18, it may work out that he's best suited to be #1RW. I'm more comfortable with that than I am paying Ferland $2.5M+ because we want to pretend he's a 1st line player.

If you believe that $2.5 m is the going rate for top line players these days, then you are in for a shock. Ferland will get around that figure on his next contract, but it has nothing to do with this idea that he is a bona-fide #1 winger. That is about the going rate these days for a young, solid middle-six player.

As for Bennett and Jankowski I think my biggest issue is with this notion that Jankowski is presently a better centre than Bennett. I think that is a fairly inflammatory claim. He may become that even as early as this season, but one year of excellent AHL play does not elevate him above what Bennett has proved in the NHL thus far. I thought Bennett's playoff performance was far superior to anything that Jankowski has done.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Really? He's already better at the integral parts of the position, face-off and two way play/defense and positioning. He's been better at it all throughout their respective developments. That's no slight on Bennett, he is the better player.

This is extremely short sighted and devoid of context.

If Bennett was in a position where he was doing all of those things at the AHL level against minor league competition, you might have a point.

But Bennett is playing centre in the NHL. Jankowski has yet to even enter that equation.

Two very different things.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Really? He's already better at the integral parts of the position, face-off and two way play/defense and positioning. He's been better at it all throughout their respective developments. That's no slight on Bennett, he is the better player.

I don't believe this is true. The problem with making this comparison is that we have never seen Bennett play in the AHL. I think he would be dominant there.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A player who has played only one year of professional hockey and who has taken a grand total of 13 shifts in the NHL is not "already a better centre" than Bennett.

Seriously. I get being excited for a shiny new rookie next season, especially after a long wait, but people are putting the cart way before the horse here. Wait for 20 games or so to assess who Jankowski is at the NHL level.