Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum

View Poll Results: Best prospect from the following list?
Austin Carroll 0 0%
Dillon Dube 6 1.53%
Zach Fischer 0 0%
Spencer Foo 21 5.34%
Adam Fox 45 11.45%
Jon Gillies 50 12.72%
Garnet Hathaway 0 0%
Josh Healey 0 0%
D'Artagnan Joly 0 0%
Pavel Karnaukhov 0 0%
Morgan Klimchuk 0 0%
Brett Kulak 4 1.02%
Oliver Kylington 96 24.43%
Linus Lindstrom 0 0%
Ryan Lomberg 0 0%
Andrew Mangiapane 8 2.04%
Mitchell Mattson 0 0%
Mason McDonald 0 0%
Adam Ollas-Mattsson 0 0%
Matthew Phillips 4 1.02%
Emile Poirier 5 1.27%
Brett Pollock 0 0%
Daniel Pribyl 0 0%
Rushan Rafikov 0 0%
David Rittich 1 0.25%
Adam Ruzicka 1 0.25%
Nick Schneider 0 0%
Hunter Shinkaruk 2 0.51%
Hunter Smith 0 0%
Fililp Sveniingsson 0 0%
Eetu Tuulola 1 0.25%
Juuso Valimaki 149 37.91%
Tyler Wotherspoon 0 0%
Voters: 393. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-06-2017, 07:50 PM   #41
Fire
Franchise Player
 
Fire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass_nerder View Post
Funny that Gillies has been in the top 3 for the last two years, and now it looks doubtful to see him in the top 5 this year.
are we just more impressed with a few newer, lesser known commodities, or has his stock fallen due to his play and we're now being more realistic on his future?
Gillies was average at best last season. I still think he has a lot of potential but it's sub-par season is definitely worth a drop in the rankings.
__________________

Fire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:03 PM   #42
EastCoastFlamesFan
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Durham NC
Exp:
Default

Juuso here. Love the potential. I think in the long run he'll be best out of the OK, Ras, Fox grouping. Man, it feels great to have so much potential on the blueline, even without Hickey, I still feel like we're in great shape for the future.
EastCoastFlamesFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:09 PM   #43
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Dillon Dube criminally underrated so far.

He was a key forward on Team Canada as an underager and was over 1.35 PPG as an 18 year old in the AHL.

He has speed and goes like a madman. I'll be shocked if he isn't in the NHL by 21 and 20 wouldn't surprise me at all.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:11 PM   #44
Macindoc
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Dillon Dube criminally underrated so far.

He was a key forward on Team Canada as an underager and was over 1.35 PPG as an 18 year old in the AHL.

He has speed and goes like a madman. I'll be shocked if he isn't in the NHL by 21 and 20 wouldn't surprise me at all.
He may be the forward prospect with the highest ceiling, and will probably be my 2nd choice among forwards after Janko, who has both upside and the appearance of being ready to make the jump.
Macindoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:15 PM   #45
Plaedo
Backup Goalie
 
Plaedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Calaway Park
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Fair enough. But the team did have him ranked in their top 11 this draft. As good as Andersson, Kylington, Fox, etc have been since their draft years, I don't think any of them have improved their stock above where Valimaki's sits already. Would Andersson or Kylington go top 12 in a re-draft? I highly doubt it. I know someone in an earlier thread was hating on draft position but there's a reason they had Valimaki ranked so high this year, they feel he has top pairing or top 4 potential.

To me Valimaki's upside is as high as any of the other defensemen with less question marks on his game. Kylington still has defense/strength issues. Fox has has size/defense issues. No big weaknesses for Juuso.

It's a balancing act trying to figure out upside vs certainty of achieving it. I think Juuso is a much better bet to make the NHL compared to Fox/Kylington and I don't think he's sacrificing much upside to do so. He's a puck rusher, point producer too but one that can also log big minutes and excel defensively.
I can follow your rationale, and agree with it, outside of the bolded. It can be dangerous to look at ranking within a given draft and attribute value to that, as some drafts are much weaker than others. Top 15 in the 2017 draft /= top 15 in the 2016 draft, etc. Thus, a redraft wouldn't provide a reasonable basis to compare the prospects.

For example, I had Rasmus higher than Valomaki, although they may have a similar cieling, since Rasmus has already overcome some of the battles in his way to the NHL. While Valimaki sounds to be solid, he has a lot of work to do, and is far from the NHL yet.

However, I like the rest if your reasoning, as it makes sense and is a good basis for evaluating a prospect - some function of projecting both cieling and floor.
Plaedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:24 PM   #46
Matata
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Exp:
Default

Don't know valimaki well enough to feel comfortable voting.

Fox had a ridiculous season, but his weaknesses (quickness and size) are each huge roadblocks at the NHL level.

Voted Kylington, had a respectable leap to the pros at a very young age, would be happy with his progress if were their first round pick
Matata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:26 PM   #47
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Both Andersson and Kylington had concerns that caused them to drop (Andersson being an out of shape lug and Kylington with attititude concerns). If you think both are fixed now as they age, then no reason they wouldn't go higher than they did orginally.

I'd be more concerned with Kylington because of his drop was because he makes terrible plays defensively, which you still see from time to time and which is basically a guarantee to get sent down to the AHL if you do as a young guy in the NHL.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:26 PM   #48
Flames Draft Watcher
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mass_nerder View Post
Funny that Gillies has been in the top 3 for the last two years, and now it looks doubtful to see him in the top 5 this year.
are we just more impressed with a few newer, lesser known commodities, or has his stock fallen due to his play and we're now being more realistic on his future?
I don't think his stock has fallen significantly. He had a good year coming back from the surgery.

I think part of it is that some fans think goalies are less of a sure thing so they downrank them in polls like this. Which I think is totally fair. Goalie development seems somewhat non-linear and hard to predict

Part of it is that Parsons had such a tremendous year. Part of it is that Valimaki has some pretty high upside too. Gillies didn't have a lot of hype this year so he's not first and foremost in our minds right now.

I will be strongly considering Gillies for the next pick. I might have had him ahead of Andersson but I was voting Valimaki last round and this round.

Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 07-06-2017 at 08:29 PM.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flames Draft Watcher For This Useful Post:
Old 07-06-2017, 08:33 PM   #49
Vulcan
Franchise Player
 
Vulcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire View Post
Gillies was average at best last season. I still think he has a lot of potential but it's sub-par season is definitely worth a drop in the rankings.
Yeah, right now I'd take Rittich over Gillies. It could change very quickly though.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:35 PM   #50
Stay Golden
Franchise Player
 
Stay Golden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
Exp:
Default

Voted Oliver Kylington.
__________________
Stay Golden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:41 PM   #51
Flames Draft Watcher
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Dillon Dube criminally underrated so far.

He was a key forward on Team Canada as an underager and was over 1.35 PPG as an 18 year old in the AHL.

He has speed and goes like a madman. I'll be shocked if he isn't in the NHL by 21 and 20 wouldn't surprise me at all.
Criminally underrated? Seems like a bit of exaggeration. I don't see how anyone can make a strong argument he should be in the top 5 personally. Perhaps you're underrating some of the other kids? Our defencemen and goalie prospects are extremely strong. Of course bias plays into it and I always view a potential top 4 defenceman as more valuable than a forward who projects as a 2nd/3rd liner.

Do you think Dube is one of the 5 most coveted Flames prospects by other teams?
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:53 PM   #52
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2017 - Round 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Criminally underrated? Seems like a bit of exaggeration. I don't see how anyone can make a strong argument he should be in the top 5 personally. Perhaps you're underrating some of the other kids? Our defencemen and goalie prospects are extremely strong. Of course bias plays into it and I always view a potential top 4 defenceman as more valuable than a forward who projects as a 2nd/3rd liner.



Do you think Dube is one of the 5 most coveted Flames prospects by other teams?


I think Kylingon is a long way from being a top 4 defenseman. He's still a project in my eyes until he eliminates the brain facts in his own end. You know how NHL coaches are... Bone headed plays by rookies are instant demotions unless you are a can't miss guy.

Valamaki was a mid first rounder in a weak draft. I don't have enough info to evaluate him above guys I've seen a bunch.

Probably just a different evaluation method. In the cap era, guys who can spend most of their elc in the NHL are so valuable. Dube to me has the skill set to immediately make the NHL when he turns pro. You are likely looking at ceiling while I'm looking at most likely outcomes. Both have their pros and cons - you likely had jankowski ahead of me before this year and I probably wrote off guys like Neimsz before you.
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 09:21 PM   #53
Reggie Dunlop
All I can get
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

I think for me, what it came down to were comparable. Spencer Foo was neck-and-neck with Jusso Valimaki. Valimaki's comparable is T.J. Brodie, who is locked and loaded for the immediate future. Foo portends to offer tangibles and attributes not currently in the system.

But it was a hair-width decision.
Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 09:22 PM   #54
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Pretty awesome that 14 players have garnered votes, and 10 of them have more than 1.

When at least 17 different players are getting top 5 votes, that says something.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 09:40 PM   #55
flame^thrower
Scoring Winger
 
flame^thrower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: canuckleheadville
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
Dillon Dube criminally underrated so far.

He was a key forward on Team Canada as an underager and was over 1.35 PPG as an 18 year old in the AHL.

He has speed and goes like a madman. I'll be shocked if he isn't in the NHL by 21 and 20 wouldn't surprise me at all.
That would be impressive!
flame^thrower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 10:13 PM   #56
Insufficient Funds
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A glass case of emotion
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Pretty awesome that 14 players have garnered votes, and 10 of them have more than 1.

When at least 17 different players are getting top 5 votes, that says something.
It is pretty awesome. It wasn't long ago that Flames fans had a tough time believing in the prospects in the system.

I bandied about between kylington and Valimaki. Ended up going with Valimaki based on his more well rounded game.

Someone voted for E2 at number 4? Drunk much?
Insufficient Funds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 10:52 PM   #57
Table 5
Franchise Player
 
Table 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NYYC
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Pretty awesome that 14 players have garnered votes, and 10 of them have more than 1.

When at least 17 different players are getting top 5 votes, that says something.
I guess it's a bit like the draft this year. Probably no can't-miss stars, but plenty of solid prospects whose perceived values are pretty bunched together, so everyone is all over the place.

Looking at the Flames prospects, one could probably rerank the Top 6-7 in any random order, and one could make a case for it.
Table 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 11:11 PM   #58
Macindoc
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire View Post
The problem with Foo is that he's already 23 and has no pro experience. Had impressive numbers last season, but in a weaker conference. Of anyone on the list I think he'll go higher than he should because he's a recent pickup. He's older than Shinkaruk, Klimchuk and Poirier, but I couldn't say he's any better than those three. I would put Mangiapane definitely ahead of him. A couple of years younger and had a good rookie AHL season. Phillips scored 50 goals for the Victoria Royals as a 18 year old. Foo had 13 goals in the AJHL at 18.

I don't think Foo is in my top 10.
Mine either. Aside from Shink, I would rank anyone you mentioned above Foo. Maybe Shink, too, but I don't think we have seen enough of Foo's development to be sure, seems like a late bloomer to me. I do think people may be overrating Foo because they are not taking into account his age advantage compared to other prospects.
Macindoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2017, 11:21 AM   #59
Flames Draft Watcher
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss View Post
I think Kylingon is a long way from being a top 4 defenseman. He's still a project in my eyes until he eliminates the brain facts in his own end. You know how NHL coaches are... Bone headed plays by rookies are instant demotions unless you are a can't miss guy.

Valamaki was a mid first rounder in a weak draft. I don't have enough info to evaluate him above guys I've seen a bunch.
Agreed on Kylington. This years draft wasn't actually weak where we picked. The draft looked weaker the very top end compared to previous years because of the lack of a generational player at the very top end. But I think getting a guy we had ranked top 11 this year is pretty comparable to getting a guy in that range in previous drafts. So the weak draft narrative is overemphasized and frankly is unfair to the kids in the 1st round this year.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flames Draft Watcher For This Useful Post:
Old 07-07-2017, 11:22 AM   #60
GranteedEV
Franchise Player
 
GranteedEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Kylington. Regardless of how far away he is (remember, next year is his 20 year old season. How many of the defensemen in last year's Norris voting top twenty were full-time NHLers before 22?) the ability level is spectacular. Honestly may be the most purely skilled-in-tight-spaces prospect we've had since Gaudreau. Though Phillips is giving him a good run for his money.
__________________

"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
GranteedEV is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:18 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021