Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2017 - Round 4

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not at all. I am voting for Valimaki because I believe he represents the highest probability of becoming a high impact top four defenseman. Some of the others have a higher upside, but Valimaki is about as sure a bet to be an excellent NHL player as the Flames have.

I would like to see some progression before I can get on board with that.

[neo45]

4th vote for Juuso

[CF84]

I believe that Foo will surprise a lot of people. He is #4 for me.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Valimaki has a lot of votes I see, case of the new shiny toy. I voted for Fox.

If by "shiny new toy" you mean "high quality prospect", then sure.

[getbak]

Being a point a game defenceman in the WHL in his draft year is quite impressive for Valimaki. Not a lot of players do that.

[N26]

Originally Posted by getbak

Being a point a game defenceman in the WHL in his draft year is quite impressive for Valimaki. Not a lot of players do that.

19 in the last six years including Joe Morrow (just joined his 4th organization), Derek Pouliot (tweener?) Brendan Kitchon (released by the Jets)

[Gaudfather]

Was considering Valimaki, but went Kylington. More certainty at this point.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If by "shiny new toy" you mean "high quality prospect", then sure.

Despite the obvious potential, the fact remains I've never actually seen the kid play. So that reason alone, I struggle to place him above guys like Kylington. Ask me again next year, I definitely may have changed my tune. But I can totally understand why some are voting for him, first round pick, lots of possibility there and general consensus amongst scouts is that he's a safe bet to play in the bigs some day. No harm in voting for that.

[Flash Walken]

I've been spamming the Adam Fox button since the first round but still not getting any traction.

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by N26

19 in the last six years including Joe Morrow (just joined his 4th organization), Derek Pouliot (tweener?) Brendan Kitchon (released by the Jets)

None of these are comparables... so im curious who your other 16 players are..

joe morrow and berek pouliot were NOT ppg in their draft years. next season is when they hit those marks...

brendan kichon was eligible for the 2010 draft but was passed over... he had 19 points in 70 games in his first year of eligibility... the next season he put up 81 in 64 and was drafted by the islanders a year late...

So.. ummm. yeah... none of these guys were PPG in their drafts years like Juuso Vallimaki... wondering what the rest of your list is like because these guys don't count...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by N26

19 in the last six years including Joe Morrow (just joined his 4th organization), Derek Pouliot (tweener?) Brendan Kitchon (released by the Jets)

All three of those guys had their point-per-game seasons the year after they were first draft-eligible. Pouliot and Morrow were already drafted and Kitchon was completely passed over his first year of eligibility.

[Anduril]

Kylington, Fox or Valimaki...Love how we've been going through seasons of amazing potential depth. First center with Monahan, Bennett, Backlund and Jankowski. Now to hope some or all of Andersson, Fox, Valimaki or Kylington make the jump.

I'm going to have to go with Kylington just because I think he's a little further along than Fox with possibly higher upside. No other basis other than gut feeling at this point quite honestly.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by getbak

All three of those guys had their point-per-game seasons the year after they were first draft-eligible. Pouliot and Morrow were already drafted and Kitchon was completely passed over his first year of eligibility.

+ those guys all have various holes in their games, like skating, or defensive acumen.

Valimaki did it all. That's impressive. For a prospect (and especially one available relatively late in the first round) he doesn't have any real holes in his game, just needs to continue to develop his game and work on putting on a bit of size. He is good to great at everything.

[Freddy]

Crap. I voted Kulak because he's already got NHL games and still has the potential to make top 4 on an average NHL defense. He gets manhandled in the corners and once his confidence is broken he is an AHL defenseman, but when he's on he looks like a very capable 2 way defenseman.

I like all the younger guys better for their potential though.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I would like to see some progression before I can get on board with that.

Fair enough. But the team did have him ranked in their top 11 this draft. As good as Andersson, Kylington, Fox, etc have been since their draft years, I don't think any of them have improved their stock above where Valimaki's sits already. Would Andersson or Kylington go top 12 in a re-draft? I highly doubt it. I know someone in an earlier thread was hating on draft position but there's a reason they had Valimaki ranked so high this year, they feel he has top pairing or top 4 potential.

To me Valimaki's upside is as high as any of the other defensemen with less question marks on his game. Kylington still has defense/strength issues. Fox has has size/defense issues. No big weaknesses for Juuso.

It's a balancing act trying to figure out upside vs certainty of achieving it. I think Juuso is a much better bet to make the NHL compared to Fox/Kylington and I don't think he's sacrificing much upside to do so. He's a puck rusher, point producer too but one that can also log big minutes and excel defensively.

[GGG]

Still on Fox for me until he is picked. I think he is the best of our defensive prospects right now. I don't think there is much to choose from (or certainly none of us are knowledgable enough) to differentiate between the ceilings or likelihood of these 4 prospects.

So everyone who isn't picking Fox must be an idiot

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GGG

Still on Fox for me until he is picked. I think he is the best of our defensive prospects right now. I don't think there is much to choose from (or certainly none of us are knowledgable enough) to differentiate between the ceilings or likelihood of these 4 prospects.

So everyone who isn't picking Fox must be an idiot

Picked Fox for the combination of potential ceiling on draft day (top 4 and exceptional PP QB) and progression since then. Kylington would be very similarly ranked for me, for similar reasons. I voted Janko first round because he looks NHL-ready now and his upside is 2nd line centre. Parsons is raw but looks like a developing franchise goaltender. Andersson has a high probability of being top 4 but may need another year (I think Kulak will be #6 this year). Valimaki will be next for me, possible top 2 D but no way to gauge progression. Then, I may finally go with someone who's not a D-man again. Not sure whether I'm more excited about the number of prospects on D or nervous about how far I would go down the list before picking another forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Fair enough. But the team did have him ranked in their top 11 this draft. As good as Andersson, Kylington, Fox, etc have been since their draft years, I don't think any of them have improved their stock above where Valimaki's sits already. Would Andersson or Kylington go top 12 in a re-draft? I highly doubt it. I know someone in an earlier thread was hating on draft position but there's a reason they had Valimaki ranked so high this year, they feel he has top pairing or top 4 potential.

To me Valimaki's upside is as high as any of the other defensemen with less question marks on his game. Kylington still has defense/strength issues. Fox has has size/defense issues. No big weaknesses for Juuso.

It's a balancing act trying to figure out upside vs certainty of achieving it. I think Juuso is a much better bet to make the NHL compared to Fox/Kylington and I don't think he's sacrificing much upside to do so. He's a puck rusher, point producer too but one that can also log big minutes and excel defensively.

I fully understand the implications of his draft ranking. And I wasn't doubting his skill level.

But my post was directed at a comment that he was the surest bet to be an NHLer (or something along those lines). The draft is a snapshot in time. In order for me to get on board with that comment, I need to see some progression.

If he was a top 5 lottery pick, different story.

[Mass_nerder]

Funny that Gillies has been in the top 3 for the last two years, and now it looks doubtful to see him in the top 5 this year.
are we just more impressed with a few newer, lesser known commodities, or has his stock fallen due to his play and we're now being more realistic on his future?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by CF84

I believe that Foo will surprise a lot of people. He is #4 for me.

The problem with Foo is that he's already 23 and has no pro experience. Had impressive numbers last season, but in a weaker conference. Of anyone on the list I think he'll go higher than he should because he's a recent pickup. He's older than Shinkaruk, Klimchuk and Poirier, but I couldn't say he's any better than those three. I would put Mangiapane definitely ahead of him. A couple of years younger and had a good rookie AHL season. Phillips scored 50 goals for the Victoria Royals as a 18 year old. Foo had 13 goals in the AJHL at 18.

I don't think Foo is in my top 10.