How to Fix the NHL’s Disastrous Tanking Situation (Grantland) - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

cral12 · 03-31-2015, 07:16 PM

{I didn't see posted - feel free to delete if a Fata - I recall tanking threads in the past}

Couple of posts today on NHL tanking and the draft system.

1. From Grantland, Down Goes Brown: How to Fix the NHL’s Disastrous Tanking Situation

Excerpt:

Quote:

"The Sabres have been widely accused of tanking their entire season to ensure they get one of those two picks, and the Coyotes have given them a run for their money by trading away just about everyone with a pulse as the season wore on. Meanwhile, fans of other miserable teams like the Oilers and Maple Leafs watch with envy, wishing their teams could drop into the race for dead last. The whole thing is a mess, and the league should be embarrassed."

2. Jonathan Willis at Sportsnet - highlighting an old one (that others and I have previously made reference to - he was on the Fan today): A smart way to keep NHL teams from tanking for the draft

From #THW Archives:

- Fixing the NHL Entry Draft Lottery System: Playoff For Number One

- Suggested NHL Draft System: Honour for Connor

___
What system do you prefer - current or alternative?

starseed · 03-31-2015, 07:31 PM

This is the first I have read about Gold's solution. I think that is a fantastic idea.

Geeoff · 03-31-2015, 07:38 PM

My view on this is that no matter what system you use, a team is always gonna finish last. If anything, reducing the value of a bad team's picks will just encourage them to trade for more picks.

Cube Inmate · 03-31-2015, 07:45 PM

Flaws exist in any system, of course, but it's nice to see so many ideas laid out in one place.

In all of these concepts there's the underlying fact that for the non-high-drafting (non playoff) teams, there's really nothing positive to be had at the end of the day. I.e., "we played our asses off for a high pick, but still lost the lottery despite the odds!" I wonder if the NHL could blend together a couple of their "parity" systems to come up with a balanced approach that eliminates tanking. That is, somehow balance draft odds and salary cap relief in such a way that there's still something to gain from a higher finish, even if a team doesn't earn a blue chip pick.

IamNotKenKing · 03-31-2015, 07:55 PM

The gist of Gold's system has been posted on here many times.

Resolute 14 · 03-31-2015, 08:14 PM

1. Stop worrying about it so much
2. Let next year's rule changes take effect
3. Stop worrying about it so much

edn88 · 03-31-2015, 08:17 PM

I had read the gold solution, and now that I have read it again, I think it is a great system. Would make almost every game meaningful til the end of the year.

Resolute 14 · 03-31-2015, 08:22 PM

The gold system is basically as stupid as promotion/relegation in European sport is: Fake competition to give crappy teams the illusion that the game matters. And in North America, I don't think anyone is gullible enough to be fooled. You're basically just insulting your fan base with a "well, we weren't trying for the first 75 games, but NOW we're going all out."

Bend it like Bourgeois · 03-31-2015, 08:49 PM

The nhls tanking problem is horrific IMO and I love the wheel concept.

But short of that let the current changes play out and see what happens.

Good article.

Poster · 03-31-2015, 08:49 PM

Is there a way to fix the bigger issue of people continuing to claim that teams are tanking? Some teams are just bad, someone has to finish last! BUF, ARZ, TOR, EDM, CRL etc.. Are not tanking! They are just not as good as the other teams in the league.

Jason14h · 03-31-2015, 09:19 PM

Quote:

The nhls tanking problem is horrific

You've not watched NBA then. This isn't even close

CgyFlamesftw · 03-31-2015, 09:25 PM

I see the gold plan is the favorite and best way. But say a team is so bad that when eliminated they win very few games like 2. Come seasons end a non playoff team close to the playoffs wins 2 while being a week eliminated, then they both will have the same percentage of drafting. Wouldn't really help very bad teams.

stemit14 · 03-31-2015, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poster

Is there a way to fix the bigger issue of people continuing to claim that teams are tanking? Some teams are just bad, someone has to finish last! BUF, ARZ, TOR, EDM, CRL etc.. Are not tanking! They are just not as good as the other teams in the league.

Of course players don't lose intentionally. But I do believe management makes decisions to keep the team in the bottom of the standings at a certain point. That can mean inaction as much as action.

For example... It was obvious to most people that Eakins needed to be fired before the season even started. But it was painfully obvious to EVERYONE that he needed to be fired by the the 3rd week of the season. Oiler management kept him there knowing things were only getting worse every day for the oilers with absolutely no sign of things turning around. They kept the status quo because they were done... Finished before even November started... with no chance of making the playoffs. Firing him or making a trade could have possibly sparked the team enough to only hurt their draft position. They kept him around for almost another 2 months and didn't make a trade till around the same time... Once they were all but guaranteed a bottom 3 finish. They left nothing to chance.

You could call it poor management - which it is - but it is also tanking. If there was incentive to make your team win games despite no chance of making the playoffs, management/ownership would make necessary moves to make their team better every chance they get.

JiriHrdina · 03-31-2015, 09:45 PM

Next year's system largely solves it. More than that, it is years when you have a guy like McDavid that this always seems to come up - I don't know if outside that it is really much of an issue.

Tiger · 03-31-2015, 09:52 PM

wouldn't the gold standard mean it would be best to tank harder and get eliminated earlier so you can collect more point potentially. I think that system would make things worse really over the entire season, with picking up intensity for the last two or three games

Incogneto · 03-31-2015, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

The gist of Gold's system has been posted on here many times.

I love this system, and have mentioned it a number of times.

Travis Munroe · 03-31-2015, 10:10 PM

I clicked each of the links and didnt find "Gold" to be an author on any... what is his system?

What if there was a system in place where once you were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, the same point system kicks into effect and would be another column beside W/L/OTL ... if you are truly a terrible team then you will be first to be mathematically eliminated and have the most games to try and earn your points (same as the current system with the 2/0/1.
Team A is eliminated with 20 games remaining
Team B is eliminated with 10 games remaining
Team A is a worse team but has more games to try and continue to win.

At the end of the season, any team not in playoffs has their points added up and #1 takes the #1 pick.

This would keep fans cheering for their team all season long and players competing to win all while keeping it even for the poor teams to have more chances to earn points.

Table 5 · 03-31-2015, 10:11 PM

It doesn't have to be rocket surgery. I think the League has the right idea in terms of the fix in terms of holding lotteries...they should just do it for more picks. It shouldn't just be about Top 3...I would do it for ALL non-playoff slots. Keep the odds similar so the crappy teams still have the best chances, but it makes tanking a much bigger risk.

IamNotKenKing · 03-31-2015, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

I love this system, and have mentioned it a number of times.

So do I.

Cheerio · 03-31-2015, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I clicked each of the links and didnt find "Gold" to be an author on any... what is his system?

What if there was a system in place where once you were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, the same point system kicks into effect and would be another column beside W/L/OTL ... if you are truly a terrible team then you will be first to be mathematically eliminated and have the most games to try and earn your points (same as the current system with the 2/0/1.
Team A is eliminated with 20 games remaining
Team B is eliminated with 10 games remaining
Team A is a worse team but has more games to try and continue to win.

At the end of the season, any team not in playoffs has their points added up and #1 takes the #1 pick.

This would keep fans cheering for their team all season long and players competing to win all while keeping it even for the poor teams to have more chances to earn points.

That is Gold's system word for word. It's option #10 in the Grantland link