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Old 08-12-2017, 06:37 PM   #121
nfotiu
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Yeah...its why i mentioned earlier that they should just let the idiots have their march and all anti-protesters just stay away so as to not get involved in any skirmishes with them.

They crave the attention and notoriety that comes with the violence, so if you just allow them their rally without opposition..it isnt even news anymore and no one gets injured.
I agree with you to an extent. If it was some local Charlottesville people who were just protesting the removal of the Lee statue, that would be one thing. But bringing in all these out of town groups whose message is to rid the country of minorities, then I can see people wanting to show that they stand against that. The police did a surprisingly poor job of separating the rally and the counter rally though.

The city of Charlottesville, it's people and it's businesses are really hurting over this, and I really hope that this isn't the start of something that will continue over weeks or months.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:38 PM   #122
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As a writer and pastor, my job is to weave together words so that those words will hopefully reach people in their deepest places; to frame the experience of this life in a way that is somehow compelling or creative or interesting, causing them to engage with the world differently than before.

But there are times when to do this would be actually be a disservice to reality, when any clever wordplay would only soften the jagged, sickening truth; when clever turns of phrase might succeed in obscuring the horrid ugliness in front of us.

Sometimes we just need to say it without adornment or finessing.

What we’re watching unfold in Charlottesville, with hundreds of white people bearing torches and chanting about the value of white lives and shouting slurs, is not a “far Right” protest. When you move that far right, past humanity, past decency, past goodness—you’re something else.

You’re not a supremacist, you’re not a nationalist, and you’re not alt-Right.

This is racism.
This is domestic terrorism.
This is religious extremism.
This is bigotry.
It is blind hatred of the most vile kind.
It doesn’t represent America.
It doesn’t represent Jesus.
It doesn’t speak for the majority of white Americans.
It’s a cancerous, terrible, putrid sickness that represents the absolute worst of who we are.

No, naming it won’t change it, but naming it is necessary nonetheless. It’s necessary for us to say it—especially when the media won’t, when our elected leaders won’t, when our President won’t. It’s necessary to condemn it so that we do not become complicit in it.

This is our national History being forged in real-time, and to use words lacking clarity now would be to risk allowing the ugliness off the hook or to create ambiguity that excuses it. And yes, there are all sorts of other ways that racism and privilege live and thrive; ways that are far less obvious or brazen than tiki-torch wielding marches. There are systemic illnesses and structural defects and national blind spots that we need to speak to and keeping pushing back against, and we will. But in moments that are this clear, when the malignancy is so fully on display—we’d better have the guts to say it.

White people especially need to name racism in this hour, because somewhere in that crowd of sweaty, dead-eyed, raw throated white men—are our brothers and cousins and husbands and fathers and children; those we go to church with and see at Little League and in our neighborhoods. They need to be made accountable by those they deem their “own kind.” They need to know that this is not who we are, that we don’t bless or support or respect this. They need white faces speaking directly into their white faces, loudly on behalf of love.

Though all of us can eventually trace our lineage back to oneness, all carrying a varied blood in our veins—the surface level differences matter to these torch-bearers. They value white lives and white voices above anything else, and so we whose pigmentation matches theirs need to speak with unflinching clarity about this or we simply amen it.

So I’m saying it.

We are not with you, torch-bearers, in Charlottesville or anywhere.
We do no consent to this.
In fact we stand against you, alongside the very beautiful diversity that you fear.
We stand with people of every color and of all faiths, people of every orientation, nationality, and native tongue.

We are not going to have this. This is not the country we’ve built together and it will not become what you intend it to become.

So you can kiss our diverse, unified, multi-colored behinds because your racism and your terrorism will not win the day.

Believe it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:40 PM   #123
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I am NOT supporting white nationalists so please before anyone goes there just stop.

But just to play Devils advocate, don't these guys have a right to peaceful protest under the first amendment?
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100% agree, however most people seem to have an issue with the political views of the protesters and the protest itself.

And for the record I don't support white nationalists. I am not even white.
I won't accuse you of anything because that's not fair, but your posts definitely raise some alarm bells, if you don't mind addressing?

You say that they have a right to peaceful protest, as a major counterpoint.....to what and who? Of course they have that right and no one is arguing otherwise. Are you frustrated that they're being challenged and condemned? Because no offense but that's kind of the take away I left with from your first post.



The second post kind of keeps pushing. You say "most people seem to have an issue with the political views of the protesters and the protest itself". Okay? They have a right to, and one would hope that in a civil society most people would have a problem with their political views and protest. It should upset people, but no one is saying it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Again, I know I'm dancing around a bit and I would only caution that when you have "I'm not supporting them, but" twice in two posts and you defend their right to protest when no one was challenging it and then express frustration that people seem to be angry at their political views you're kind of projecting a view of your own.

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #124
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You know speaking of "radical Islamic terrorism" and Obama refusing to say it being some issue, the Klan of course is technically "radical Christian terrorism". Wonder what the odds are we start seeing that phrase used a bit more often, and the expectation that Trump should condemn it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:44 PM   #125
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If you feel insulted that people are calling you racist because you support Trump. Choose a better person to support. Hell choose a person.
Do you support socialism because your province is run by the NDP?

This is a very simple minded comment, and you probably don't think of topics beyond a sentence or two. But trump ran against a horrible candidate that nobody liked. Most people who voted that I know hated both candidates.

Trump won the R nominee because the normal vote was split many ways across more normal(ish) candidates.

Yes the US has problems, no doubt about it, but hopefully for you and many others stories like this keep popping up so a lot of Canada never has to look in the mirror.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:48 PM   #126
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Here's confirmation of the guy's name. Not the guy people were suggesting earlier

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/lo...40f442510.html
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:51 PM   #127
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I agree with you to an extent. If it was some local Charlottesville people who were just protesting the removal of the Lee statue, that would be one thing. But bringing in all these out of town groups whose message is to rid the country of minorities, then I can see people wanting to show that they stand against that. The police did a surprisingly poor job of separating the rally and the counter rally though.

The city of Charlottesville, it's people and it's businesses are really hurting over this, and I really hope that this isn't the start of something that will continue over weeks or months.
Oh for sure, I'm not saying people don't want to stand against this stuff.

Im just saying that if they didnt, the assclowns that are KKK and their ilk, will go scream at the base of the statue for a couple hours and then go back to the caves they came out of.

No one would be injured, the morons wouldnt be getting all this press, and this thread and a million like it on social media wouldnt exist.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:53 PM   #128
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This is completely false.

I can support someone without knowing or supporting anyone that he/she does. Doesn't matter if it is Trump, Clinton, Trudeau, Harper, etc

Supporting someone because they are the best option (which imo Trump is not btw) does not mean that everything they do or think is agreed with.
It may not apply to everything but it seems like the kind of thing that if you support a candidate who supports these types of groups then you're probably implicit. We're not just talking about some minor quibble about his policy. Trump has been on record numerous times with his anti-immigrant xenophobic and racist views.

Not to mention the fact that I highly doubt that most Trump supporters have an issue with what's going on in Charlottesville. Trump has been supporting this type of behaviour for the last two years and these are the people that voted for him. What would make anyone think that that would change now?

Using some ridiculous excuse about only voting for him as an anti-Hillary vote is hilarious to me. You still voted for a candidate with extreme xenophobic and racist attitudes and his entire campaign was predicated on drumming up this type of conflict among his voters.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:53 PM   #129
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I kind of agree that one shouldn't have to take the intentions and beliefs of their fellow voters into account when voting and should have to wear the beliefs of others, but......

One would hope that an educated voter absolutely would take this into account when studying candidates as they now have a part in everything that candidate does while representing his voting base, which is what Trump is doing now.

Problem is, it's harder to hold people to account for voting in the US because their country is a fake democracy. If a Canadian says he had to vote for one candidate over the other you know they're being intellectually dishonest and are likely partisan and had their mind made up.

When an American says it, they're probably telling the truth. Just the nature of their politics.

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:53 PM   #130
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Do you support socialism because your province is run by the NDP?
Well I voted for the NDP because I believed in them. And still do.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:54 PM   #131
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Oh for sure, I'm not saying people don't want to stand against this stuff.

Im just saying that if they didnt, the assclowns that are KKK and their ilk, will go scream at the base of the statue for a couple hours and then go back to the caves they came out of.

No one would be injured, the morons wouldnt be getting all this press, and this thread and a million like it on social media wouldnt exist.
Yea. And now the extremists on both sides looking for a fight may recreate this in other cities. It's not a natural reaction but you just need to let these clowns get their life's frustrations off heir chest and then it's over.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:01 PM   #132
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It may not apply to everything but it seems like the kind of thing that if you support a candidate who supports these types of groups then you're probably implicit. We're not just talking about some minor quibble about his policy. Trump has been on record numerous times with his anti-immigrant xenophobic and racist views.

Not to mention the fact that I highly doubt that most Trump supporters have an issue with what's going on in Charlottesville. Trump has been supporting this type of behaviour for the last two years and these are the people that voted for him. What would make anyone think that that would change now?

Using some ridiculous excuse about only voting for him as an anti-Hillary vote is hilarious to me. You still voted for a candidate with extreme xenophobic and racist attitudes and his entire campaign was predicated on drumming up this type of conflict among his voters.
So a vote for Hilary means you support corruption and bribery? Your opinion is very lazy, and you have to recognize that if you are in Canada you had little ability to understand the issues Americans had to weigh. All Canadian media I saw just trashed trump (mostly fairly) but left Hilary alone. If you have two candidates, and both have serious warts, you still have to hold your nose and pick one. It doesn't mean you believe everything they stand for.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:01 PM   #133
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Agree with Cecil though, Trump's ugliest policies were very clear before he was elected, so any Trump voter knows what they were supporting even if it was a protest vote. They have to wear that, for sure.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:08 PM   #134
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Exactly what Jayswin said. I could understand if Trump had pulled a total 180 or if his campaign hadn't overtly promoted this type of behaviour from voters but it did. These are exactly the types of issues in the types of voters that he went out of his way to rile up into a frenzy so that they would vote for him based on fear and hatred.

Furthermore the idea that my opinion is lazy or that I'm uneducated on the issues is hilarious. Unless you'd like to provide some sort of explanation as to what secret issues only Americans were privy to.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #135
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:14 PM   #136
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^^ that doesnt make any sense whatsoever from the video i have seen. He drove INTO protestors, not away from them....that was evidenced when he drove backwards 10 seconds later right from where he had started and there were maybe 3 people anywhere near him.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:18 PM   #137
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^^ that doesnt make any sense whatsoever from the video i have seen. He drove INTO protestors, not away from them....that was evidenced when he drove backwards 10 seconds later right from where he had started and there were maybe 3 people anywhere near him.
He also rear ended 2 cars. So he could have been scared.

Will be interesting how it plays out.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:18 PM   #138
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So it appears that police have been given special powers to impose a curfew and not allow anyone on the streets of C'ville tonight.

Something they should have considered after last night IMO, and then todays events likely dont happen.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #139
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That's a ridiculous thing to post. If you read her Twitter, it was from several hours ago and were statements made before the police had seen the video. The police chief has said they believe it was pre-meditated.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #140
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Agree with Cecil though, Trump's ugliest policies were very clear before he was elected, so any Trump voter knows what they were supporting even if it was a protest vote. They have to wear that, for sure.
I followed the 2016 election closely and don't remember any super ugly policies promised by Trump. His immigration platform was to stop illegal immigration (seems logical), better trade deals (whats wrong with that?), suspension of travel from high risk middle eastern countries (same as Obama) to name a few. Were their others that were offensive that I'm forgetting?

Trump does have a polarizing persona, and I can definitely see why some people dislike him, but his policies are fairly logical (to me). I think one of the reasons his administration gives off a perception of being in chaos, is that establishment democrats and republicans beholden to their special interest groups are all hell bent on stopping all of his policies. Just my 2 cents.
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