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Old 08-10-2017, 07:48 AM   #1
Serapth
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Default So... why not Jagr?

I know in previous polls, of the options available, Jagr seems to be the one player the CP forum seems to agree would be a solid addition to the team.

According to TSN Jagr hasn't got a single offer?

This just strikes me as a near impossibility. Even as a 3rd/4th line player, he'd be an upgrade on the roster of basically 30 NHL teams. Any thoughts on why nobody has taken a shot?
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:49 AM   #2
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It's most likely money being the hold up. Also Jagr is probably super selective on what team he'll go to, no point in offering him a contract if you know he'll say no.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:52 AM   #3
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It's most likely money being the hold up. Also Jagr is probably super selective on what team he'll go to, no point in offering him a contract if you know he'll say no.
He seems super flexible on term and is going to okay in some b tier league if he doesn't get a contract. Perhaps he's fronting, but his comments seem like he has a realistic picture of what he brings to the table at this point.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:01 AM   #4
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No room on the roster. Pass. I rather give Foo a chance in the line-up.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:04 AM   #5
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31 General Managers in the NHL don't gave the same affinity for fond memories that most fans do.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:14 AM   #6
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31 General Managers in the NHL don't gave the same affinity for fond memories that most fans do.
He had 46 points last year without Huberdeau for 2/3rds, and Barkov for 1/3rd, of the season. AND played all 82 games as a 44 year old. He can contribute.

The better question is whether he's a good fit or not. He's slower, but can create a lot of offense through sheer positioning, boardwork, and stick handling. If he fit on a line that already had guys like that it would be smart to sign him for at least one year.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:17 AM   #7
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It would be interesting to know where calgary would rank on Jair's list of teams he wants to play for and/or how much it would take to get him here
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:24 AM   #8
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According to TSN Jagr hasn't got a single offer?

This just strikes me as a near impossibility. Even as a 3rd/4th line player, he'd be an upgrade on the roster of basically 30 NHL teams. Any thoughts on why nobody has taken a shot?
Age and skating are probably the two big reasons nobody has given him an offer along with apprehension about how well he'd take any drop down the depth chart or scratching. He's slow and getting slower. If you have possession in the offensive zone then he's fine. But he's not helping you get possession back if you lose it. And he's not likely to be able to score on a quick break transition. How will he handle it if the coach wants to rest him or doesn't trust him 5 on 5?

I dunno I'm torn on Jagr. Personally I don't see much room for him if we're healthy. I think he and Iginla would be big distractions if they had to be dropped down the lineup due to performance. How well would either take being scratched? How would they handle fourth line duties? These are proud guys who've been 1st liners and all stars their entire careers. Neither of them is known for their defensive play and both of them have had their skating ability diminish. Speedy guys who can play defense can always have a role. But slow guys who aren't good defensively are probably a liability if they aren't playing well on a scoring line.

I think both Jagr and Iginla are quite risky because of this. The minute they stop being effective offensive players they can be a liability and a distraction. Is their upside worth the risk? Or do you gamble on the young players and prospects you already have and their upside instead? I would've take Jagr a year ago over Brouwer. But we don't really need to gamble on a Jagr IMO. The Flames are deep up front and most of it is young talent. There is no obvious hole that he would fill. I'd be curious to see him with Johnny but I'd also be apprehensive about how it would work out. I think Ferland and Tkachuk are better options overall.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:28 AM   #9
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He had 46 points last year without Huberdeau for 2/3rds, and Barkov for 1/3rd, of the season. AND played all 82 games as a 44 year old. He can contribute.
And after losing Marchessault and Smith you'd think they'd want to keep a guy like Jagr. Why was FLA so eager to move on from him? I think the answer to that question tells us why other teams haven't been banging down his door.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:33 AM   #10
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And after losing Marchessault and Smith you'd think they'd want to keep a guy like Jagr. Why was FLA so eager to move on from him? I think the answer to that question tells us why other teams haven't been banging down his door.
They wanted to move on because they changed their game plan and systems. Also, even though he performed admirably, they were a losing team last year with him. Changes were imminent regardless, and I think they wanted some younger players with speed to play on the wings...so they went out and got Vrbata. ?????

yeah, it's not a good example because I have no idea what's going on now in Florida. I'm hopeful that Tallon's moves were made with a legitimate plan in mind, and not just to undermine the advanced stats guys that had taken over the roster.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:53 AM   #11
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meh, if we're going to take on an aging winger that takes up a roster spot and is a general risk given their age, i'd rather the flames just bring back Iginla.

what i'd much rather is that the flames leave at least 1-2 spots open come camp, and have the likes of Jankowski, Foo, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Poirier, Hathaway force themselves onto the opening day roster due to strong camps. If the young guys that have been in the minors for a few years now, are given opportunities for openings in the roster, can't 'bring it' then i'd be disappointed (again, last year's camp was sad).
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:11 AM   #12
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No room on the roster. Pass. I rather give Foo a chance in the line-up.
There'd be a significantly greater chance of Jagr contributing to the team than Foo being ready for the NHL this season.

There's a greater chance also that Jankowski makes a case. Either at center or wing. Very little reason to think that he wouldn't be ready at this point. If there is a vacant roster spot for any one, it would be for him.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:21 AM   #13
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They wanted to move on because they changed their game plan and systems. Also, even though he performed admirably, they were a losing team last year with him. Changes were imminent regardless, and I think they wanted some younger players with speed to play on the wings...so they went out and got Vrbata. ?????

yeah, it's not a good example because I have no idea what's going on now in Florida. I'm hopeful that Tallon's moves were made with a legitimate plan in mind, and not just to undermine the advanced stats guys that had taken over the roster.
Dale Tallon knows what he is doing, of that there is no doubt.

Its what he inherited to work with that may take some time to sort through.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:21 AM   #14
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I think Brad is probably focused on getting Sam Bennett signed.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:39 AM   #15
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Dale Tallon knows what he is doing, of that there is no doubt.

Its what he inherited to work with that may take some time to sort through.
I think a lot of it was getting out of some bloated contracts (Jokinen, Smith). Smith regressed badly after a breakout year. Marchessault scored a lot of goals, but defensively he didn't play very well and wasn't very effective. He had a hot streak like Colborne that made him look better than he really was. I don't think you see that kind of production from Marchessault in Vegas.

However, the defense is pretty set for years to come, as is center ice. There are some decent prospects coming soon too, so who knows. Wingers can be found throughout the season, and they already have a very good one in Huberdeau for the top line. The core is largely in place, but like the Flames, I'd be more comfortable with a long-term solution in net:

Huberdeau-Barkov-X
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X-MacKenzie-X

Ekblad-Yandle
Matheson-Demers
Pysyk-Petrovic
MacCoshen

Reimer/Luongo

I also love the Boughner hiring for head coach. I think the team is going to have some bite this year and play better defense under him.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:40 AM   #16
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Jagr looked pretty useless whenever he played the Flames. Still skilled as hell but useless defensively.

Also got a tonne of opportunity which he likely wouldn't get on another team.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:47 AM   #17
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There'd be a significantly greater chance of Jagr contributing to the team than Foo being ready for the NHL this season.

There's a greater chance also that Jankowski makes a case. Either at center or wing. Very little reason to think that he wouldn't be ready at this point. If there is a vacant roster spot for any one, it would be for him.
I don't disagree, but you need spots to develop the younger players like Foo or Jankowski. I rather see a slightly less effective Foo this season than one of the oldest and slowest players take a roster spot. Jankowski will play center or left wing. Foo is a RWer, they are not fighting over the same spot.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:50 AM   #18
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I'm guessing Jagr is looking for absurd money.
Wasn't it announced that he was completely broke within the last 10 years?
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:51 AM   #19
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Jagr would most likely pick up more points than Foo or another rookie, but it is still debatable if he would "contribute" more to the team. It would be absolutely essential for any newcomer to fit into Gully's system, and I fear Jagr (and to a lesser extent, Iggy) would be far more prone to freelance.

Perhaps if we didn't sign Versteeg, there would be a more obvious spot for him, but in my mind, there isn't really any room.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:13 AM   #20
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I wouldn't hesitate in bringing Jagr in once Bennett's contract is done.

You bring in a leader, you bring in a high-end skill-set that other players can learn from, you bring in a guy who is still one of the best at puck-possession and puck protection, and you bring in a guy that can probably still put up 50pts.

Even ignoring the possibility of bringing in a legend, and even disregarding my total fanboy crush on him that has lasted about 20 years, I think bringing him in makes the Flames a better and deeper team.

Jankowski, Foo, Poirier and the rest will still get their shots. Flames were a very healthy team last year, but that isn't always the case. There are bound to be injuries, and those kids will all get their opportunities this year to play some NHL games and show their worth.

The only thing that stops me from thinking this is a no-brainer is the dollars. Bringing him in also gets the kids to experience what a legend really is like, how hard he works at his craft, and they get to witness some amazing milestones that they probably won't see again in their playing careers. I think it is worth it - as long as the dollar figure isn't too high. 2 million + 2-2.5 million in bonuses sounds good. If he reaches those bonuses, then it was the right move bringing him in. Who knows what kind of a contract he is chasing, but he has a great opportunity in Calgary.
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