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Old 08-09-2017, 09:24 AM   #461
GirlySports
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World Cup for professionals, Olympics for U23s. For Olympic years, you skip the WJCs at Christmastime.

Pretty simple really.
you'd have to find crappy 22 year olds because the NHL isn't releasing them.
it's fine now with crappy adults.

The best solution is to actually move hockey to the summer games.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:36 AM   #462
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you'd have to find crappy 22 year olds because the NHL isn't releasing them.
it's fine now with crappy adults.

The best solution is to actually move hockey to the summer games.
Why? The same group that makes up the WJC roster should be the same group that plays in the Olympics. NHL teams will have the option to retain or release certain players that are U23, but most will be playing major junior anyway.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:36 AM   #463
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The best solution is to actually move hockey to the summer games.
That would work, except that the Winter Olympics would then lose half of their TV and sponsorship revenues!
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:38 AM   #464
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Why? The same group that makes up the WJC roster should be the same group that plays in the Olympics. NHL teams will have the option to retain or release certain players that are U23, but most will be playing major junior anyway.
WJC is U20...not U23.

The Olympics isn't going to change the age to U23, so you'll have men from other leagues playing in the Olympics. And even most ECHLers would dominate against U20's...
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:39 AM   #465
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My point is the NHLPA had multiple opportunities to be part of the Olympic participation negotiation. They chose not to and therefore I don't think they have the right to complain now. If it was really that important to them, either going or having three weeks off, then they should have negotiated it in their last CBA.

I'm disappointed that NHL players aren't going and I would assign blame in the following order:

IOC - They are a dirty, arrogant, corrupt organization and think everyone should bend over backward for them because well, it's the Olympics.
NHLPA - wanted to go, but didn't want to give up anything to do it
NHL - I think their requests to recognized as a sponsor and be able to use the Olympics in promotion was reasonable.
IIHF - These are the guys that really tried. They even offered to pay the insurance and travel costs, which I don't think they should as the IOC makes all the money.
You're assuming that they didn't try to negotiate it during the last CBA negotiations. Without it being in the CBA the players have zero influence on the negotiations between the NHL and the IOC, both sides were well aware the players wanted to participate. The fact that they are not giving in to the NHL's demands of extending the CBA an additional 3 years does not suggest to me they weren't willing to negotiate an extension, it suggests that the NHL was not willing to negotiate. They gave the PA an ultimatum to accept their terms in exchange for participation, the PA declined. Unless there is something printed that states the PA refused to negotiate anything else, I don't think it's fair to suggest they are any more to blame than the league. I think if the league had offered to extend the CBA for the option years alone in exchange for Olympic participation the players would have been a little more open to considering it. I feel as though the approach the league is taking is setting up the next round of negotiations to be more hostile than it needs to be.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:44 AM   #466
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Re the next CBA - Bettman loves a negotiation in an environment of hostility - it is his raison d'Ítre !
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:51 AM   #467
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Re the next CBA - Bettman loves a negotiation in an environment of hostility - it is his raison d'Ítre !
I think he's really just trying to stock up on his carrots to dangle. He knows the players are going after getting rid of the escrow, and he also knows that it's going to be hard to argue against at the very least modifying it given the way the league revenues have trended since its introduction. He knows Olympic participation is a big bargaining chip so if he can offer that in addition to a few other small concessions he probably believes he positions the league to not have to give in on escrow. My guess at the end of the next round of bargaining we see Olympic participation, a reduced escrow and the cap escalator removed.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:25 AM   #468
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That would work, except that the Winter Olympics would then lose half of their TV and sponsorship revenues!
not sure hockey makes as much as people think.
The Winter Games are about figure skating, that has to be more than 50%. The figure skating is going to start at 10am in Korea to get primetime in the US. Next would be skiing. Norway, Switzerland, Austria and Germany dominate skiing, ski jumping etc.. and those get huge audiences, those countries don't care too much about hockey. Speedskating is big too, they get Asian audiences who also don't care about hockey.

People will sit down an watch a race or performance in the Olympics. A ski race, a skating race, an artistic performance. They are not watching a 2 hour hockey game when there are multi events in a 2-week Olympics.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:30 AM   #469
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Internationally hockey may not be a big draw, but in NA it's huge. Obviously especially in Canada. People here would wake up at 2am to watch a hockey game but it's unlikely they would for freestyle fugure skating
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #470
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There's a zero percent chance hockey gets moved to the summer olympics. Zero. Especially since the only possible justification is that it's for entitled millionaires to be able to participate.

Unless it's roller blade hockey, maybe for the L.A. Olympics in 2028 they can recreate the Venice Beach roller hockey scene from the second Mighty Ducks movie.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:36 PM   #471
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you'd have to find crappy 22 year olds because the NHL isn't releasing them.
it's fine now with crappy adults.

The best solution is to actually move hockey to the summer games.
Back to where it started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_ho...ummer_Olympics
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:42 PM   #472
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Enough about who won't be playing in the Olympics, how about those who will...

MayRay going cray cray: https://twitter.com/khl_eng/status/895349845334134789
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:58 PM   #473
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Without it being in the CBA the players have zero influence on the negotiations between the NHL and the IOC
If it was anyone else, I would be stating "you aren't that naive".

How much influence the NHLPA could have had if it added its voice to the NHL's position rather than undermine it is an unknown. However, the CBA is not relevant to that part. In terms of the NHL and NHLPA making its own deal, they could have done so as a modification of the CBA or as a separate arrangement - which the 2014 agreement technically was, iirc.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #474
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Enough about who won't be playing in the Olympics, how about those who will...

MayRay going cray cray: https://twitter.com/khl_eng/status/895349845334134789
Mason must have been playing lacrosse before he got the Team Canada call!
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:38 PM   #475
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If it was anyone else, I would be stating "you aren't that naive".

How much influence the NHLPA could have had if it added its voice to the NHL's position rather than undermine it is an unknown. However, the CBA is not relevant to that part. In terms of the NHL and NHLPA making its own deal, they could have done so as a modification of the CBA or as a separate arrangement - which the 2014 agreement technically was, iirc.
Did the league invite the PA to be involved in the negotiations? Undermining their position? Everyone knew they wanted to go, and the IOC knew participation was the league's call whether the players wanted to go or not. Are you really under the delusion that the IOC played hardball assuming the PA would sway the league to just allow them to go and that's why the deal fell apart? Even if that were the case, that's on the IOC and their incompetence, not the players. The IOC should have realized who they were negotiating with and focus on their concerns, not the players'.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:33 PM   #476
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The IOC always plays hardball. That's what they do. The fact that the players want to go is literally the only leverage they have (had).

If the players wanted to guarantee participation they should've negotiated that in the CBA, or even just agreed not to opt out, as has been explained to you multiple times. That would've been the smart move if they really wanted to go instead of relying on the good graces of the owners who take on all the risk and no reward.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:39 PM   #477
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The IOC always plays hardball. That's what they do. The fact that the players want to go is literally the only leverage they have (had).

If the players wanted to guarantee participation they should've negotiated that in the CBA, or even just agreed not to opt out, as has been explained to you multiple times. That would've been the smart move if they really wanted to go instead of relying on the good graces of the owners who take on all the risk and no reward.
If the offer was to just not opt out in 2019 I think they might have accepted it. But to extend it another 3 years to 2025 was never going to happen. The NHL knew this and only offered to try and score points in the media. I agree they should have negotiated it in, and I assume it will be negotiated into any further CBA's.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:14 PM   #478
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The IOC always plays hardball. That's what they do. The fact that the players want to go is literally the only leverage they have (had).

If the players wanted to guarantee participation they should've negotiated that in the CBA, or even just agreed not to opt out, as has been explained to you multiple times. That would've been the smart move if they really wanted to go instead of relying on the good graces of the owners who take on all the risk and no reward.
Did the league ever offer to agree to let the players participate if they agreed to not opt out of the CBA?
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:32 PM   #479
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Internationally hockey may not be a big draw, but in NA it's huge. Obviously especially in Canada. People here would wake up at 2am to watch a hockey game but it's unlikely they would for freestyle fugure skating
Figure skating ratings in Canada and the USA are the #1 reason the Winter Olympics expanded from 10 to 16 days in 1988.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:24 PM   #480
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Figure skating ratings in Canada and the USA are the #1 reason the Winter Olympics expanded from 10 to 16 days in 1988.
I don't doubt its popularity, I just meant in comparison I'm pretty confident saying there are likely more diehard hockey fans than diehard figure skating fans in this country.
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