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Old 08-01-2017, 04:39 PM   #361
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I think you need to step off the edge a bit when it comes to the new shows man. There's no point doing deep, detailed analysis before anything is even seen. Could it suck? Maybe. Could it be great? Same chance.

Remember when the initial teaser trailer came out for Beyond with the Beastie Boys song? And the uproar was "Look at this dumb action movie! This isn't Star Trek! What is that Beastie Boys song doing there!? Paramount/J J Abrams/Justin Lin are the worst!" Then the movie came out and it ended up being the best Star Trek movie in 20 years. And the Beastie Boys song was in the climax of the movie and it was awesome.

So, reserve judgment until the time comes for it to truly be judged.
I like writing these things, I'm not on the edge at all. Its one of the little things that I enjoy doing and I encourage people that don't like them not to read them.

The bottom line for me is that Star Trek has been in a creative down slide for a long time. It really started with First Contact and they've really struggled badly with the franchise.

First Contact, Generations, Insurrection, Nemesis were all what I would consider to be poor representations of the Trek Universe. Even the best of them which was first contact was crippled by the loss of what made Star Trek really strong which was the ensemble crew, instead they put Picard and Data out front and made the rest of the crew cardboard cutouts. On top of that the Borg Queen was just a terrible idea of a villain that made the Borg just far less terrifying.

Enterprise was a great idea gone wrong, the script writing was weak, the acting just wasn't there and they didn't do anything with the exception of a few arcs that really got you charged up.

The first JJ Trek was passable and gave a bit of hope. But the villain was just uninspiring and realistically the logic of the plot line was lacking.

Into Darkness was just terrible, they dug into the past and failed badly with it.

They came back a bit in terms of Beyond, But it the villain was just lazy.

Frankly what they're doing now is sticking the Star Trek label on films that shouldn't really be star trek films, or they're trying to re-invent the past and doing a poor job of it.

It used to be that Star Trek was great at inventing antagonists, Even beyond the original series that gave us Klingon's and Romulans and Generations that gave us the Borg and Q, and Deep space 9 that gave us immortal shape shifters with a genetic army. You had Khan, and Kruge, you had Chang. These were great villains and they made the hero's just look better.

Now they're just trying to reinvent what really shouldn't be re-invented.

Hey I have some of the same problems with Star Wars, I'm still not all that sold on the new trilogy, it had its good to great moments, but during TFA it just felt tired.

There's so much potential in Sci-Fi to make interesting stories with interesting villains and heros. There should almost be no limit in that sandbox. But instead they just rolling out the same thing over and over and over again.

To me, and I like I said, I loved Myer's work. Instead of lets just redo Khan. It should be what out there could be more dangerous, or more sympathetically evil then him.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:49 PM   #362
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All you've done in this thread is complain before seeing any of the new show (other than two minute trailers and pictures) and seem to actively dislike at least half of the franchise. It's getting a little tiresome that any time there is news there's a 500 word post slamming whatever it is because it doesn't live up to some weird golden standard of Star Trek.

People forget that a lot of the original Star Trek isn't great either. There's a lot of flat out terrible TOS episodes and half the original movies suck too. It never bats 1.000.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:12 PM   #363
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I've never understood why people hold Star Trek to such a high standard in the first place. In my opinion the "heart" of Star Trek is TNG, because I think we can all agree that the best actor to ever appear in Star Trek is Patrick Stewart and its not even close. We could argue for eternity on who the second best is, but they would be light-years behind Stewart. Only a talent like that can take sometimes outright terrible dialogue and make it sound glorious. The fact he always took the role seriously elevated the game of everyone around him. Aside from Dr. Crusher (Gates McFadden is an awful actor) every single other character shined the brightest when working a scene with Stewart.

Unless you can find another actor of his quality Star Trek will seldom rise above "good" which I'm actually fine with, because I don't think it was ever meant to be so serious. It's just TNG was a show that punched so far above it's weight that anything new will be a let down compared to it. Avery Brooks was awesome, I had no issue with Kate Mulgrew as Janeway, and I actually liked Enterprise very much. The NX01 is my favorite Enterprise. The thing is that I didn't go into the other Treks outside of TNG expecting them to measure up. Its just not going to happen.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:27 PM   #364
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I've never understood why people hold Star Trek to such a high standard in the first place. In my opinion the "heart" of Star Trek is TNG, because I think we can all agree that the best actor to ever appear in Star Trek is Patrick Stewart and its not even close. We could argue for eternity on who the second best is, but they would be light-years behind Stewart. Only a talent like that can take sometimes outright terrible dialogue and make it sound glorious. The fact he always took the role seriously elevated the game of everyone around him. Aside from Dr. Crusher (Gates McFadden is an awful actor) every single other character shined the brightest when working a scene with Stewart.

Unless you can find another actor of his quality Star Trek will seldom rise above "good" which I'm actually fine with, because I don't think it was ever meant to be so serious. It's just TNG was a show that punched so far above it's weight that anything new will be a let down compared to it. Avery Brooks was awesome, I had no issue with Kate Mulgrew as Janeway, and I actually liked Enterprise very much. The NX01 is my favorite Enterprise. The thing is that I didn't go into the other Treks outside of TNG expecting them to measure up. Its just not going to happen.
On a fun sidenote, if you watch the documentary 'The Captains' it turns out that Avery Brooks is genuinely batcrap insane.

The guy is a certifiable lunatic.
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Old 08-01-2017, 06:20 PM   #365
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It's on Netflix. I will watch.
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Old 08-01-2017, 06:27 PM   #366
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It's on Netflix. I will watch.
Not in Canada or the States.

In the US, it will only be on the CBS streaming service. In Canada, it will air on Space first (the only country where it will be available through a traditional tv channel) and then be available on Crave.
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:10 PM   #367
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People forget that a lot of the original Star Trek isn't great either. There's a lot of flat out terrible TOS episodes and half the original movies suck too. It never bats 1.000.
Yeah, a lot of TOS was bad. But it was at least trying to do science fiction. Take a premise about technology or an alien culture. Dramatize the ramifications of that technology or alien culture on humanity. Science fiction.

I understand that science fiction is more or less a dead genre in pop culture today. Aside from maybe Black Mirror, I can't think of a show that's about the ramifications of technology, or about exploring the frontiers of human experience. But if there's any chance to revive the genre, it's Star Trek. Unfortunately, the people producing it these days see it as just another action/superhero franchise. Maybe this new series will be different. But I haven't seen a lot to be encouraged about so far.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:08 PM   #368
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On a fun sidenote, if you watch the documentary 'The Captains' it turns out that Avery Brooks is genuinely batcrap insane.

The guy is a certifiable lunatic.
He's literally insane, but at the same time the guy has a lot of different talents.

From what I understand he left active acting to teach. If you ever stumble across his jazz stuff, he's actually very good.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:33 PM   #369
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He's literally insane, but at the same time the guy has a lot of different talents.

From what I understand he left active acting to teach. If you ever stumble across his jazz stuff, he's actually very good.
You actually have to stumble across it, because he travels North America by electric scooter until he finds a public park with a fountain, where he sits on a cedar stool he made himself, from a tree he grew as a child, puts on his straw hat to keep the bee people away, and plays three strikingly good tunes on his clarinet.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:41 AM   #370
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IIRC he did release a jazz album a few years back. And if you go deep into youtube he has played some festivals.



J.G. Hertzler talks about playing Martock and working with Brooks

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