Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[icecube]

Somone needs to link Tim Wise's article from timwise.org

I'd do it if I wasn't a total noob.

Brilliant as always at shining the light on racism and the denial of racism in the world.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

This is not pulling the race card? Do you recall any other president bringing up "your kids look like mine" when tragedy occurs? He is saying I am one of you, my kids are black and if I had a son he would look like him. It is already a race issue, why make it more. Just say this has the appearance of a race related crime and I have my best people working on it. There is no reason to further frame this with race. Isn't the goal of race relations to be fair no matter what the appearance? When you are saying you look like me you appear to be taking a side.

You would think he would have learned his lesson from the Professor incident when he called the cops stupid before he even knew what happened because the professor was black. Now with the shooter actually being Hispanic... he can only lose, now he has the appearance of siding with one minority over the other.

It's a fricking factual statement. If he had a son he would like like him.

I love people like you who like to pretend that race isn't an issue in this country. Crawl back under your rock and bury yourself a little deeper.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Maybe Obama should invite both parties to the white house for a beer to straignten things out

If the Justice Department is getting involved, maybe the President shouldn't be getting involved.

Which is precisely why he isn't, despite numerous calls to do so.

[tjinaz]

I don't know if you are just trying to spin this, or comically missing the point.

All the outrage here is aimed at the useless, racist police force doing nothing about this kid's murder. The cops are the villains.

Maybe it's just me, but the "Hispanics vs Blacks" angle has a few overtones of its own.

There is a history and much mileage to be gained if the deed is done by a white man vs a hispanic. The initial call was white male shot an unarmed black kid and that is why this is news. Do you think the coverage would be the same if the report read hispanic male shoots unarmed black male? Change the location from Florida to Georgia or Mississippi and then we are over the top with racial accusations. A white man kills an unarmed black man in the south and that is an open and shut case in the press. No trial needed he is guilty and if he doesn't go to prison it is an injustice. Now you switch that up and make it a Hispanic.. things aren't so clear. There is no clear antagonist in the press.

Has it been made clear that the police force is racist? Because an unarmed black man was shot and the shooter is not in jail? That makes the police racist? Other than the point that two men (I say men as Trayvon was 17 and could be physically as large or larger than Zimmerman) had an altercation and one was shot dead not a whole lot has been brought out about the case and yet according to you the police force is racist. Zimmerman himself has been called that and much more in the press with no information to back it up and on the contrary more information is coming out that he has Black blood relatives and yet because he had an altercation with a black man and shot him he is racist.

That is what I am saying. There are so many unsubstantiated accusations being made due to what... race. You throw that into the mix and facts become secondary. This is no longer about justice it is a chance for the race baiters to get their time in front of the camera and pander to their fans and for the press to have a huge emotional story to get their readership up and sell advertising. How about we quit with all the accusations until the facts are known?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

There is a history and much mileage to be gained if the deed is done by a white man vs a hispanic. The initial call was white male shot an unarmed black kid and that is why this is news. Do you think the coverage would be the same if the report read hispanic male shoots unarmed black male? Change the location from Florida to Georgia or Mississippi and then we are over the top with racial accusations. A white man kills an unarmed black man in the south and that is an open and shut case in the press. No trial needed he is guilty and if he doesn't go to prison it is an injustice. Now you switch that up and make it a Hispanic.. things aren't so clear. There is no clear antagonist in the press.

Has it been made clear that the police force is racist? Because an unarmed black man was shot and the shooter is not in jail? That makes the police racist? Other than the point that two men (I say men as Trayvon was 17 and could be physically as large or larger than Zimmerman) had an altercation and one was shot dead not a whole lot has been brought out about the case and yet according to you the police force is racist. Zimmerman himself has been called that and much more in the press with no information to back it up and on the contrary more information is coming out that he has Black blood relatives and yet because he had an altercation with a black man and shot him he is racist.

That is what I am saying. There are so many unsubstantiated accusations being made due to what... race. You throw that into the mix and facts become secondary. This is no longer about justice it is a chance for the race baiters to get their time in front of the camera and pander to their fans and for the press to have a huge emotional story to get their readership up and sell advertising. How about we quit with all the accusations until the facts are known?

Who are you even talking to?

[tjinaz]

It's a fricking factual statement. If he had a son he would like like him.

I love people like you who like to pretend that race isn't an issue in this country. Crawl back under your rock and bury yourself a little deeper.

Wow really? Until he said that i would never have guessed! Who doesn't know that and needs to be reminded? Who is kidding who? He is using his race to appeal to his base plain and simple.

Rouge said the police were racist.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Wow really? Until he said that i would never have guessed! Who doesn't know that and needs to be reminded? Who is kidding who? He is using his race to appeal to his base plain and simple.

Rouge said the police were racist.

He is making a statement that I've heard dozens of people make about incidents in which young people were killed, be they white, black or green. It's about humanizing the person and showing an ability to relate. You wanted to jump to the racial angle.

And seriously, keep that head buried.

[tjinaz]

He is making a statement that I've heard dozens of people make about incidents in which young people were killed, be they white, black or green. It's about humanizing the person and showing an ability to relate. You wanted to jump to the racial angle.

What does it matter what the kids look like? If they didn't look like his kids would it be any less a tragedy? If not then why bring it up in the first place? Can they not be like his kids, the same age, same personality, like the same activities, why do they have to "look" specifically? You could be right but that he phrased it in just that way on a clearly race related issue I don't think is coincidence.

We have been doing the same things in relation to race relations for years and it hasn't worked. Incidents like this reinforce everything that is wrong. The powers that be on both sides have dug in and are perfectly happy keeping things the way they are. Maybe when the Hispanics or Asians are the majority things will change or maybe they will just be the new oppressors.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Now you switch that up and make it a Hispanic.. things aren't so clear. There is no clear antagonist in the press.

The clear antagonist here is the police force. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this?

Everybody knows full well that this Zimmerman guy isn't some plain old angry white guy. By your logic, the whole thing should have been dropped by now, because the black/white angle isn't there. But it hasn't been dropped. Why not?

This dead kid's parents have been making the most noise. Do you think, if he'd been shot by a black man under the very same circumstances, that they would just let it go?

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Has it been made clear that the police force is racist?

Yes.

Answer this question: If there was a dead white kid in the ground, and he'd been shot by some black"community watch leader", would that guy be in jail?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

What does it matter what the kids look like? If they didn't look like his kids would it be any less a tragedy? If not then why bring it up in the first place? Can they not be like his kids, the same age, same personality, like the same activities, why do they have to "look" specifically? You could be right but that he phrased it in just that way on a clearly race related issue I don't think is coincidence.

We have been doing the same things in relation to race relations for years and it hasn't worked. Incidents like this reinforce everything that is wrong. The powers that be on both sides have dug in and are perfectly happy keeping things the way they are. Maybe when the Hispanics or Asians are the majority things will change or maybe they will just be the new oppressors.

What part of it? The part where hundreds of thousands of people call for a proper and thorough investigation into the death of an unarmed 17 year old boy with no history of trouble. Yeah, that's terrible. We should really just turn a blind eye and pretend this didn't happen.

While we're at it, let's just pretend that race in America isn't an issue.

[tjinaz]

And what happens if after the investigation it is found there is nothing wrong?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And what happens if after the investigation it is found there is nothing wrong?

The likelihood of that occurring is about 0.0000001%. There is already publicly available information that at the very least should have resulted in the local police force engaging in a more thorough investigation. Do you honestly think that this investigation was done properly based upon what is known? This isn't about the end result of the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman, it's about a police force doing its job properly and a state law that opens the door for unstable people like Zimmerman to take on a self proclaimed vigilante role and kill people.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And what happens if after the investigation it is found there is nothing wrong?

An adult shot a teen boy, the fact they didn't even take him into the station for questioning just shows how much the police care about this boy or his family. Something went wrong that night regardless of why the coward followed a teen boy and then shot him. If Zimmerman would have followed the instructions of the 911 operator Trayvon is sitting in a classroom right now, not in the morgue.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And what happens if after the investigation it is found there is nothing wrong?

It would be proof positive that Florida's justice system and state law was fuba'd beyond all hope.

There are no circumstances under which it is ok to kill someone walking away from you, when you have no idea if they have commited a crime or are armed or are a threat.

That said my foster sons uncle was shot to death in Seattle last year for the crime of being native and having a wood carving knife and the cop in that walked off scot free even though it was found to be unjustified. If ever a country that claims the moral high ground has feet of clay it is the US, laughable that they think they are in anyway qualified or able to bring democracy and regime change to the midle east when these intolarent racial attitudes are so ingrained.

[tjinaz]

I haven't seen the evidence that contradicts the police account. I hesitate to accuse an entire police force of racism based on little evidence.

The likelihood of that occurring is about 0.0000001%. There is already publicly available information that at the very least should have resulted in the local police force engaging in a more thorough investigation. Do you honestly think that this investigation was done properly based upon what is known? This isn't about the end result of the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman, it's about a police force doing its job properly and a state law that opens the door for unstable people like Zimmerman to take on a self proclaimed vigilante role and kill people.

So I thought the point here was to get justice for the wronged and their family. That being if there was wrongdoing to jail or possibly even capital punishment for the offender. Even the DOJ admits that is unlikely.

In the Martin case, the department is likely to first closely watch how Florida officials handle it in the face of increased public pressure. And one DOJ official, who did not want to be quoted, said at least the initial evidence suggests it will be hard to prosecute Zimmerman under federal hate crimes law.
"While the investigation of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin will go forward, it will be difficult to prosecute the case under federal law. Civil rights law protects against hate crimes or actions by police officers, but Martin's shooting may not have either of those elements," the official said.

http://www.thegrio.com/politics/just...xperts-say.php

So what is the end game here? I thought we were looking for justice?

MINISTER FARRAKHAN ‏ @LouisFarrakhan

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Where there is no justice, there will be no peace. Soon and very soon, the law of retaliation may very well be applied. #Trayvon

[evman150]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Has it been made clear that the police force is racist? Because an unarmed black man was shot and the shooter is not in jail? That makes the police racist? Other than the point that two men (I say men as Trayvon was 17 and could be physically as large or larger than Zimmerman

According to the family's lawyer, the murderer was about 80 pounds heavier.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/467816.../#.T2z178WPVkg

But like the rest of your posts, this one stinks of racist apologetics and false equivalence rationalizations.

[tjinaz]

OK so because I don't join the bandwagon and question the press I am now a racist too. I would like to see things tried in court and not the press ..

You remember that racist James Crowley? Well all the press was convinced he was ... at first.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

OK so because I don't join the bandwagon and question the press I am now a racist too. I would like to see things tried in court and not the press ..

But the press is looking to see things tried in court...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

OK so because I don't join the bandwagon and question the press I am now a racist too. I would like to see things tried in court and not the press ..

Were it not for the press it would never get to court.

[FlamingLonghorn]

By the way there is evidence this police department has been racist in the past. It's actually one of the reasons the last chief stepped down, but continue on with your ridiculous rant.