Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Here:

http://gunowners.org/fs0101.htm

Even the anti-gun Clinton administration estimated 1.5 million/year gun defense acts while other sources peg it closer to 2.5 million.

Somehow I doubt you would ever know these figures by watching the big news networks.

You feel that quoting number of uses of a gun in defense as proof of its effectiveness? And you proved my cherry picking assertion by writing gunowners.org

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You feel that quoting number of uses of a gun in defense as proof of its effectiveness? And you proved my cherry picking assertion by writing gunowners.org

LOL .........where else are you going to get gun defense statistics?

MSNBC? CBS?

Your quick response suggests you didn't even bother to read the article.....or check the sources......but hey lets just take citizen gun ownwership away so women can be more easily raped in the subway late at night.

[burn_this_city]

I find it amazing that we don't have a subway rape epidemic here in Canada with our lack of gun totting citizen heros.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

LOL .........where else are you going to get gun defense statistics?

MSNBC? CBS?

Your quick response suggests you didn't even bother to read the article.....or check the sources......but hey lets just take citizen gun ownwership away so women can be more easily raped in the subway late at night.

You know the best part of this line is that the US city with the most extensive and widely used subway system is NYC, which is also the city with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. And guess what? No subway rape epidemic. Strange.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I find it amazing that we don't have a subway rape epidemic here in Canada with our lack of gun totting citizen heros.

We're talking about America here. Canada does not have big cities like the states have. The demographice are vastly different.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

We're talking about America here. Canada does not have big cities like the states have. The demographice are vastly different.

For someone who rails against the military industrial complex so feverishly I find it ironic you're so against gun control. It doesn't take a scientist to realize that the NRA is backed by the deep pocketed gun manufacturers. Which in turn has convinced a large chunk of the population that guns make them safer, which has been proven time and again to be false. I like guns, I even own a couple, but there is nothing out there that convinces me that average citizens need to be packing for public safety.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by valo403

You know the best part of this line is that the US city with the most extensive and widely used subway system is NYC, which is also the city with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. And guess what? No subway rape epidemic. Strange.

Yeah, ...good ol' New York City, the safest place on earth......no gang problems or anything.

Do you happen to have NY subway rape statistics? I'm not sure what constitutes a rape "epidemic". Across the whole country, there are countless incidents where women use/brandish their guns to deter attacks.

Remember that thread about the teen mom who blasted some chump trying to break into her house? Yeah ...it happens and the police cannot be there to protect you at all times.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yeah, ...good ol' New York City, the safest place on earth......no gang problems or anything.

Do you happen to have NY subway rape statistics? I'm not sure what constitutes a rape "epidemic". Across the whole country, there are countless incidents where women use/brandish their guns to deter attacks.

Remember that thread about the teen mom who blasted some chump trying to break into her house? Yeah ...it happens and the police cannot be there to protect you at all times.

[nik-]

wow, that pic is massive

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

For someone who rails against the military industrial complex so feverishly I find it ironic you're so against gun control. It doesn't take a scientist to realize that the NRA is backed by the deep pocketed gun manufacturers. Which in turn has convinced a large chunk of the population that guns make them safer, which has been proven time and again to be false. I like guns, I even own a couple, but there is nothing out there that convinces me that average citizens need to be packing for public safety.

The military industrial complex has barely anything to do with this. They make the bulk of their coin on heavy war machines, aircraft, missiles etc. for major conflicts between governments.

[burn_this_city]

Someone made a bunch of money off the nearly 200 million guns owned in the US.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yeah, ...good ol' New York City, the safest place on earth......no gang problems or anything.

Do you happen to have NY subway rape statistics? I'm not sure what constitutes a rape "epidemic". Across the whole country, there are countless incidents where women use/brandish their guns to deter attacks.

Remember that thread about the teen mom who blasted some chump trying to break into her house? Yeah ...it happens and the police cannot be there to protect you at all times.

Sure do, a grand total of 5 over the last two years for which data is available.

http://www.mta.info/mta/compliance/p...0Narrative.pdf

Can we just get an admission that you were once again talking out of your ass when you made your earlier claim?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by valo403

Please direct me to a school shooting carried out by "thugs"

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/articl...NEWS/110819846

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/articl...NEWS/120209873

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...-at-the-links/ (suppose to be a nice upscale apartment complex)

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...-in-northport/

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...spects-sought/

Yeah these thugs are really worried about gun laws huh?

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...traffic-stops/

stolen guns? these must be law abiding citizens

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...ported-stolen/

Also what attitude? That I believe in my second amendment rights? that I choose to carry a pistol legally? I have never had to brandish the weapon, nor do I hope to. I rather have the opportunity to defend myself if it happened. It's not like I can ask the bad guy to stop robbing me or raping my fiance for a few minutes until the cops show up.

I would rather go to some redneck bar in the sticks than walk in downtown Birmingham at night. The stats prove that people that have their permits are less likely to commit a crime or even use the weapon. If you don't want to go to the south you can always go to Chicago, or DC. I'm sure those gun free cities will protect you from robbers and such.

I'm not defending Zimmerman by any means, do ccw holders commit crimes? Yes they do, they just like everyone of us are capable of committing a crime with our without a weapon. I just think that the irrational fear of weapons is weird. That's like me saying every Canadian hockey player is missing half their teeth and are neanderthals because of Steve MacIntyre is a Canadian hockey player. Just because this guy killed a kid because he disobeyed orders from a dispatcher and was getting his ass handed to him doesn't mean that everyone or even a low percentage of us CCW holders are "vigilante" cops.

You do know that can do a citizen arrest here in the states right? With our without a weapon in your possession. So I guess every American is a "vigilante cop".

Please don't paint all ccw holders with such a broad brush. Not every German was a Nazi, nor am I a vigilante cop looking to "pop a cap in someone"

Myth: "Gun control" laws prevent crime.
There are tens of thousands of federal, state and local gun laws. The Gun Control Act of 1968 alone prohibits persons convicted of, or under indictment for, crimes punishable by more than a year in prison, fugitives, illegal drug users, illegal aliens, mental incompetents and certain other classes of people from purchasing or possessing firearms. It prohibits mail order sales of firearms, prohibits sales of firearms between residents of other states who are not dealers, prohibits retail sales of handguns to persons under age 21 and rifles and shotguns to persons under age 18 and prohibits the importation of firearms "not generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes." It also established the current firearms dealer licensing system. Consider the following:

- The overall homicide rate in the jurisdictions that have the most severe restrictions on firearms purchase and ownership—California, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, New York and Washington, D.C. is 23 percent higher than the rate for the rest of the country.

- The federal Gun Control Act of 1968 imposed unprecedented restrictions relating to firearms, nationwide. Yet, compared to the five years before the law, the national homicide rate averaged 50 percent higher during the five years after the law, 75 percent higher during the next five years, and 81 percent higher during the five years after that.

The record is clear: gun control primarily impacts upstanding citizens, not criminals. Instead of taking guns away from citizens, holding them accountable for their actions reduces crime:

http://alabamaopencarry.com/forum/in...p?topic=3413.0

CRIME AND GUNS
Basic to the debates on gun control is the fact that most violent crime is committed by repeat offenders. Dealing with recidivism is key to solving violence.
• 71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
• 64% had been convicted of a crime.
• Each had an average of 11 prior arrests.
• 63% of victims have criminal histories and 73% of the time they know
their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories).

Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.
Myth: Guns are not a good deterrent to crime

Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Fact: It seems to be slowing down property crime (especially burglaries). The chart shows the legal handgun supply in America (mainly in civilian hands) to the property crime rate.


Fact: Every day 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent
crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired.

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries” which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the
owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.

Fact: Washington D.C. has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted. There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, D.C. rate.

Fact: 26% of all retail businesses report keeping a gun on the premises for crime control.


Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year.


Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following:

• 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."
• 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."


Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other criminals.

Fact: 94.4% of gun murders are gang related.


Fact: After the implementation of Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibiting handgun possession for protection, the “breaking and entering” crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the American rate.


Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime

Fact: Thirty-nine states , comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.


Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as ofthe last reporting period, 2005).

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws


Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:

• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6.0-screen.pdf

Good read

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PIMking

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/articl...NEWS/110819846

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/articl...NEWS/120209873

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...-at-the-links/ (suppose to be a nice upscale apartment complex)

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...-in-northport/

http://crime.blogs.tuscaloosanews.co...spects-sought/

Yeah these thugs are really worried about gun laws huh?

S-C-H-O-O-L

You cite school shootings perpetrated by "thugs" as something that could be prevented by concealed carry and when asked for examples give me news articles about shootings at movie theaters and apartment complexes. Seriously?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by valo403

S-C-H-O-O-L

You cite school shootings perpetrated by "thugs" as something that could be prevented by concealed carry and when asked for examples give me news articles about shootings at movie theaters and apartment complexes. Seriously?

Well lets just take it for what it's worth, The last few have been in colleges. These colleges are "gun free zones" that really deterred those people from going there with guns didn't it?

Just because I used the word thug doesn't mean any particular race of people. These people are thugs.

Thug:

noun
1.a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
2.( sometimes initial capital letter ) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

So by definition they are in fact THUGS!

edit

Well for stat reasons because I know you're going to say "stats stats stats" I'm not saying that it would stop them, I'm saying that if these thugs knew that they had a chance of being shot at they (by the stats I posted in a previous post) would be less likely to do it.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Well lets just take it for what it's worth, The last few have been in colleges. These colleges are "gun free zones" that really deterred those people from going there with guns didn't it?

Just because I used the word thug doesn't mean any particular race of people. These people are thugs.

Thug:

noun
1.a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
2.( sometimes initial capital letter ) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

So by definition they are in fact THUGS!

edit

Well for stat reasons because I know you're going to say "stats stats stats" I'm not saying that it would stop them, I'm saying that if these thugs knew that they had a chance of being shot at they (by the stats I posted in a previous post) would be less likely to do it.

I'm not going to say stats stats stats, I'm going to say make an actual attempt to support your point, be it with stats or a reasoned argument. All of the recent school shootings that I know of have been perpetrated by people with either mental health issues or with an axe to grind. They weren't picking locations based on whether or not they were gun free zones, they were picking locations based on where they lived and worked and who they wanted to target.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm not going to say stats stats stats, I'm going to say make an actual attempt to support your point, be it with stats or a reasoned argument. All of the recent school shootings that I know of have been perpetrated by people with either mental health issues or with an axe to grind. They weren't picking locations based on whether or not they were gun free zones, they were picking locations based on where they lived and worked and who they wanted to target.

but do you think if guns were banned by law that this wouldn't happen? If they're that far off the ledge they're going to do anything.

But the stats I did post in gunfacts.info show that the number of people with their ccw committing crimes is much lower. The only thing I'm asking is not to paint every CCW American as some "guy with a gun looking for a reason to shoot someone"

The fact is that Zimmerman killed a young man. This wouldn't have happened if Zimmerman didn't approach him. This wouldn't have happened if Martin didn't beat the tar out of him. Either way, even if Martin was "slamming his head into the ground" I haven't seen sufficient evidence that his life was in danger to shoot him.

[afc wimbledon]

If guns kept people safe the US would be the safest place in the world, it isn't, they don't.

The reality is a gun is a crappy self defense tool, it is a really good assualt tool it therefore lends itself to being used more effectively by thugs not homeowners, most times people are attacked they can't find their gun in time or they are to scared to use it effectively or just plain don't know what is happening until it is to late.
The thug, on the other hand, has the advantage, he is in charge with the gun drawn and loaded and in his hand.
The other reality is most murders are not commited by 'thugs' but by boyfriends or husbands shooting other family members or aquaintences, guns to nothing to stop this but do make these disgruntled pricks far more deadly.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by PIMking

but do you think if guns were banned by law that this wouldn't happen? If they're that far off the ledge they're going to do anything.

But the stats I did post in gunfacts.info show that the number of people with their ccw committing crimes is much lower. The only thing I'm asking is not to paint every CCW American as some "guy with a gun looking for a reason to shoot someone"

The fact is that Zimmerman killed a young man. This wouldn't have happened if Zimmerman didn't approach him. This wouldn't have happened if Martin didn't beat the tar out of him. Either way, even if Martin was "slamming his head into the ground" I haven't seen sufficient evidence that his life was in danger to shoot him.

I have never suggested either of those things

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I find it amazing that we don't have a subway rape epidemic here in Canada with our lack of gun totting citizen heros.

Probably in part because we have so few actual subways. Especially ones that are operating late at night. Just saying. Carry on.