What the Flames are missing

[PeteMoss]

Goalie with standing on his every night.

[bluloc]

A hockey team.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

balls

FYP.

In all seriousness the team won't be going anywhere until they get 2-3 premier (and I mean high end talent) young or in their prime players to build around. Not okay players, but bonafide superstars in their position. They can fill in the rest of the roster around them but they need gamebreakers - what Iginla and Kipper used to be. The current team has a couple former superstars surrounded by ok support cast players, and a few duds. Zero gamebreakers.

[indes]

Looks like they're missing golf season

[Buck Murdock]

Oleg Saprykin

[tfi racing]

What are they missing?An owner.This ownership group is a clueless and careless group of millionaires too engaged with their primary businesses to give the attention
and direction that a NHL team needs to be a championship contender...

[cannon7]

This team is missing a 6'4" defenceman with a right-handed shot and all-around ability, currently playing in Portland.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Pure and simple. This team has almost no growl. And decidedly little bite. No one is scared of the Flames. They don't enforce their will because they seem to play even smaller than they actually are. Only the Stajan line seems to play like true NHL players.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Almost to a man this 2004 team was bigger and stronger and grittier (and less skilled) than Bouwmeester, Butler, Wideman, Smith, Brodie, Tanguay, Cammalleri, Hudler, Cervenka, Backlund, Baertschi, Stempniak

In a skills competition 2013 >>>>>>>> 2004

2004 team was way more SKILLED than current team.

2004 skill is VASTLY underrated because of the style of the game those guys played.

Jarome Iginla was pretty skilled, you have to be skilled to lead NHL in goals, don't you? 2013 team just doesn't have anyone even remotely close to leading NHL in goals.

Martin Gelinas, a former 7th overall pick, had two 30+ goals seasons in the dead-puck era. Allegedly "skilled" Jiri Hudler has career high of 25. Super duper skilled Mike Cammalleri also has two 30+ goals seasons, but they were in the "new NHL" era. Mind you, overall Cammalleri was scoring at better clip than Gelinas, but it also has a lot to do with new NHL opening space for an undersized shooters like him.

Craig Conroy wasn't all that skilless, was he? Much like Gelinas, his game was more about speed, defense and grit, but he still had a fair amount of skill. He had 3 20+ goals seasons. Again, Hudler has 2, Stajan has 0, Backlund has 0. Backlund is young, but I don't see how he is more skilled than Conroy was.

Ironically, Chris Clark has scored 30 goals while Alex Tanguay never did (I know it's more of a fun fact than valid argument, but it's tells you something nonetheless). Sure playing with Ovechkin helped, but Tanguay had Forsberg as his center.

Chuck Kobasew went on to have three 20-goals seasons and he was on 2004 fourth line. Chris Simon was bottom-six player in 2004 and he has 29-goals season. He had decent hands and good shot. Lombardi was fourth line center and he has 20-goals season under his belt as well.

On defense you have Jordan Leopold who currently has 64 goals in 608 games. The uber skilled Jay Bouwmeester has 71 goal in 746 games. Leopold has better goals-per-game.

All in all, I just don't see 2013 team as being tremendously skilled, they don't have in-their-primes Huselius, Tanguay or Cammalleri anymore. If Curtis Glencross is your leading goalscorer, you might be not as skilled, as you think you are. Shootout record doesn't indicate a lot of skill either. Meanwhile, 2004 team had good amount of skill, that was spread over the whole line-up (Kobasew, Lombardi, Clark, Saprykin, Simon in bottom six). They were lacking top-end center and pure LW sniper, but so does 2013 team.

[badradio]

You guys seem to forget that in 2004 the NHL was different... You could have a roster of sandpaper that wouldn't land you in the box every 5 minutes... The game was different... the 'new nhl' made it a lot harder to do that. Though when it came to the playoffs it seemed to even out a bit more... But I still think it's important to point out.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Chemistry.

And some goaltending.

There is absolutely no way an honest and impartial observer can look at the Flames roster and say "On paper, that's the worst team in the western conference".

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Chemistry.

And some goaltending.

There is absolutely no way an honest and impartial observer can look at the Flames roster and say "On paper, that's the worst team in the western conference".

I agree except that this team is softer than oleo.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by badradio

You guys seem to forget that in 2004 the NHL was different... You could have a roster of sandpaper that wouldn't land you in the box every 5 minutes... The game was different... the 'new nhl' made it a lot harder to do that. Though when it came to the playoffs it seemed to even out a bit more... But I still think it's important to point out.

Darryl and his rodeo team were blind to this new NHL, and ownership and the meddling KK still haven't figured it out 9 yrs. later.

[bubbsy]

We need great players hitting their prime, leading the team. Leaning on 35+ aging stars to lead the team is ridiculous. Having great veterans sprinkled into a lineup is awesome, but without young players in key positions, you just aren't going to get far.

Oh, and more of all the adjectives used by burke when describing the kind of team he wanted to build the leafs to be to be successful.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

There is absolutely no way an honest and impartial observer can look at the Flames roster and say "On paper, that's the worst team in the western conference".

TSN had them at 14th at the start of the season.

Flames rosters "on paper" have been overrated ever since 2005-06. I really can't get where this "good on paper" comes from. Maybe it's the same paper that had Baertchi running for Calder. To me, they are horrible on paper. Stajan (never had even 20-goals season) and Backlund are the only centers. Glencross (30 years old, who never scored 30 goals a season) is the leading goalscorer. Top point getters are 33 years old Alex Tanguay, who had only one 60-points season in his last 6 seasons, and 30 years old Lee Stempniak, Lee bloody Stempniak. Cammlleri couldn't crack 20 goals in his last three seasons. Jiri Hudler is 29 years old, who has yet to score 100 NHL goals (for example, Chris "stone hands" Clark has 103 career goals, albeit he also didn't have 100 at his 29th birthday). I will omit Iginla, as there are many other threads on him. I don't see good roster here at all.

[Roof-Daddy]

1. A #1/#2 two way center that gives it 100% every shift, and is good for 50+ points

(Examples - Bergeron, Krejci, Weiss, M.Richards)

2. A #3 defensive center that can win draws, has some offensive upside, and preferably good size/toughness

(Examples - Brodziak, Boyle, Kelly, Gaustad)

3. A #4 heart and soul, face off winning, shot blocking, penalty killing defensive center

(Examples - Gordon, Thompson, Smithson, Konopka)

4. A top 4 defensive D-man (20+ minutes per game) with size, mobility and some toughness/grit

(Examples - Polak, Jackman, Methot, Scuderi, Alzner)

5. A couple BIG top six wingers, with speed, two way abilities, and grit/toughness.

(Examples - Lucic, Horton, Stewart, Wheeler, Clowe)




Also, preferably you'd want as many of these players as possible to 22-27 years old.

[PeteMoss]

Age has a lot to do with it. Younger guys are more likely to throw their face at a puck... old guys are smarter but less likely to sacrifice themselves to win. Once you start making giant dollars you start thinking about lasting.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by rhino

Mike Commodore
Steve Montador
Ville Niemenen
Marcus Nilson
Chris Clark
Shean Donovan
Chuck Kobasew
Stephane Yelle
Chris Simon
Andrew Ference
Martin Gelinas
Rhett Warrener
Craig Conroy

Now I am not saying these guys specifically buy guys like this. This was the supporting cast of 2004 that let the stars be stars. There are very few guys on the current roster that compare to this group. These guys played hard EVERY NIGHT!!!! They played for each other and this city. There are way to many passengers on this roster for it to ever be consistent. Coach after coach has said this group lacks consistency. There is no character or leadership on this team. Look at every guy on my list and they all were leaders, and yes I include Kobasew because he worked his ass off when he was here. Last nights game( Columbus) was a perfect example of how no one on this team steps up to lead.....and sorry but I think Jarome is just tired of always having to be that guy. Kippers #'s are horrible because he cannot stop 20 point blank opportunities a game. Free these guys and ditch the dead weight. Look for character in return and in the off season.

The Flames probably needed those player's attitudes and desires to win, but the team does not need most of those players on the team right now, especially Rhett Warrener, who comes out from his basement wearing his loose undies and slammin' Iggy in every possible way whenever he's in his menstral mood. What the Flames really need are some center depth after the Niewendyk/Gilmore/Otto era's. Now, they also need some defensive size and depth. Similar guys like Yelle and Gelinas would definitely help the team as well.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by badradio

You guys seem to forget that in 2004 the NHL was different... You could have a roster of sandpaper that wouldn't land you in the box every 5 minutes... The game was different... the 'new nhl' made it a lot harder to do that. Though when it came to the playoffs it seemed to even out a bit more... But I still think it's important to point out.

Agreed. Our team in 2004 was one of the best hooking/holding/obstruction teams. Obviously you can't duplicate that anymore and thus lower talent teams have a hard time keeping up with higher talent teams.

That said we do lack some things from that team. Excellent team speed and tremendous forechecking and backchecking.

[Psytic]

LA, Boston and STL get away with playing rough with people. You can still do it in the new hockey era you just need the right personnel. Kipper gets run by teams every other game. I see teams imposing their will on the Flames night in night out why cant we have a team that does that now.