[PGT] Flames 6 Arizona 5 - whine about the tank here

[looooob]

well one thing we can all agree on, is whatever thing happens in game 82- the result associated if the other thing happened would have been a Flames lottery win

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What people are putting a shiny face on wins though?

I don't see not being over the top upset about a win as a shiny face.

Well, half of this thread is people trying to convince people that they shouldn't be upset about the W versus Arizona because "no team loses every game" and "they've been terrible since the TDL" and "no professional is ever going to intentionally lose a game".

The vast majority of this thread is both sides just strawmanning each other.

But here are some posts that are even more, in my opinion, putting a bright shiny spin on what is an objectively poorer outcome for the Flames:

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Pretty happy with the win, and I have some good news for team tank:

Since 2003 the picks made with the 9th overall pick were better than the 8th, you be the judge:

Top talent 8th: W. Nylander, Werenski, Couturier, Mittelstadt, Ristolainen, Boedker, Coburn, Setoguci

Top talent 9th: Sergachev, D. Hamilton, Meier, Horvat, Couture, Phaneuf, Ehlers, Trouba, Bailey, Granlund, Zegras

Originally Posted by mogg

This thread is ridiculous. Also let us consider that an entertaining (albeit meaningless) hockey game involving your favorite team was played this evening. Oodles of goals! High-skill plays from talented hockey players! Wild swings! A few saves! Fun crowd shots! It’s as if some of you want to be miserable.

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

sigh. How many years of this pointless "discussion" do we have to look forward to?

Look, I get believing that earlier picks are better for acquiring elite talent. They are; but picking later doesn't make Conroy's job impossible, it just makes it harder. Conroy and co. have clearly emphasized scouting in the early stages of this retool. Surely none of you believe that they aren't aware that the organization needs elite talent?

Maybe they'll be able to Dallas this and get some players that significantly out-produce their draft position. Or, maybe they won't. But you can bet they'll be trying.

In any case, just enjoy the ride. They'll win some, they'll lose some. Some players will struggle, some will settle in. Coronato and Zary both scored in this one; that's nice, isn't it? We're all fans, and we all want the organization to succeed. We all want championships. The guys in charge want to win at least as much as we do, and they'll do what they think is best in order to make that happen.

At the very least, we can see an identity taking shape in this group, can't we?

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I'm not on team tank.

But I think the only way to become a successful franchise is to try and meet performance standards day in and day out. So if your standard is to want to be a winning team and franchise, then the team you put on the ice has to go out there and play to win.

Then, from the game day thread:

Originally Posted by Goriders

I guess at this point winning or losing doesn’t make much difference in the standings. So you might as well win.

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I wouldn't hate it if the Flames won out and put a good feeling on those young guys as they head into their summer routine.

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

When was the last time to played sports? Every win feels good, every loss feels bad, stringing wins together feels great, stringing losses together feels like ####.

You don't make it to the NHL if you accept losing. No player on that team is thinking, well if we lose two more games we get a shot at a better pick. They are thinking what can I do to make this team win next year.

Winning is a feeling you want to remember, and winning four straight into an off season where young players will stir the drink next season is not a small thing, especially when they have gone 6-12 since the deadline.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Yes, actually. A good feeling to end a bad year could be a major mental lift, especially for young guys looking to learn and find their way. It might not be meaningless to them.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Well, half of this thread is people trying to convince people that they shouldn't be upset about the W versus Arizona because "no team loses every game" and "they've been terrible since the TDL" and "no professional is ever going to intentionally lose a game".

Are any of those things actually wrong?

And is it, in fact, of any benefit to anyone to be upset about a win? Does it change the outcome in any way, or does it just make the person doing it feel worse?

[Blaster86]

It's not a bright shiny spin. It's literally something that is. Actively hoping to lose and choosing to be bad as opposed to just letting it happen naturally is how you end up with failed and stalled rebuilds as teams lack any sort of base or culture to build off of. I am hoping the Flames get #### kicked tonight.

I was also hoping the Canucks would get #### kicked every game they played after they were clearly out of the play-offs. But I understand why teams don't just pack it in. The Flames are going to have a year or two to get some high picks and draft some good young players. Actively cheering for them to lose is just crazy to me as a fan. It would also be crazy to me as a player.

[Five-hole]

I'd suggest that trying to convince anyone to feel differently about something is a fool's errand. People feel what they feel.

If people are in here -- a thread entitled "whine about the tank here" -- whining about the tank, I'd suggest they simply want to bitch and moan, not try to have their mind changed through reasoned debate.

But it's not only reasoned debate, it's also this condescending moralizing about cheering for losses. You shouldn't just feel differently because "the team has already been terrible", you should feel differently because cheering for the team to lose somehow has this moral dimension to it and you should feel bad about the way you feel.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

If people are in here -- a thread entitled "whine about the tank here" -- whining about the tank, I'd suggest they simply want to bitch and moan, not try to have their mind changed through reasoned debate.

First: The thread title was obviously intended ironically. The use of the word ‘whine’ is an explicit criticism of anyone who actually uses the thread for that purpose.

Second: There is a long-standing tradition on CP of having one, and only one post-game thread after each game. The purpose of a PGT is not to whine about the tank, it's to discuss the results of the game.

But it's not only reasoned debate, it's also this condescending moralizing about cheering for losses. You shouldn't just feel differently because "the team has already been terrible", you should feel differently because cheering for the team to lose somehow has this moral dimension to it and you should feel bad about the way you feel.

A couple of posters are guilty of that. Most of us are reacting against the ‘condescending moralizing’ of posters who say we ought to be upset about wins, that somehow we are jeopardizing the team's future by not hating it when they win.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Me saying that a way to become a successful franchise is to 'try and meet performance standards day in and day out' is putting a 'bright shiny spin' on things?

Weird.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by looooob

well one thing we can all agree on, is whatever thing happens in game 82- the result associated if the other thing happened would have been a Flames lottery win

I'll always remember in 2016 when people here flew into a tizzy because the Flames won their final game of the season and pulled ahead of the Jets. Then, later that night, the Jets rallied from a 3-0 deficit to win in OT and pulled back in front of the Flames.

Then, the draft lottery came, and Winnipeg won the 2nd overall pick from the spot the Flames would have held had Winnipeg not won their final game.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by getbak

I'll always remember in 2016 when people here flew into a tizzy because the Flames won their final game of the season and pulled ahead of the Jets. Then, later that night, the Jets rallied from a 3-0 deficit to win in OT and pulled back in front of the Flames.

Then, the draft lottery came, and Winnipeg won the 2nd overall pick from the spot the Flames would have held had Winnipeg not won their final game.

Clearly that was totally Brad Treliving's fault, because reasons.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by getbak

I'll always remember in 2016 when people here flew into a tizzy because the Flames won their final game of the season and pulled ahead of the Jets. Then, later that night, the Jets rallied from a 3-0 deficit to win in OT and pulled back in front of the Flames.

Then, the draft lottery came, and Winnipeg won the 2nd overall pick from the spot the Flames would have held had Winnipeg not won their final game.

And because of Winnipeg’s win (and Columbus’) Calgary dropped from 5th to 6th. Winnipeg takes Laine, Columbus switches places with Vancouver and take PLD, Vancouver takes Juolevi.

[Redrum]

Interesting how that all worked out. Kind of like a less effed up version of Edmonton getting McDiver only because of a rule created specifically to stop Edmonton from getting every 1st overall pick until the end of time.