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Old 08-12-2016, 03:09 PM   #1
TorqueDog
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Default LF: (Now a bldg code discussion) Curved acrylic / Plexiglas handyman work

No longer needed! Keeping this here for posterity as it actually lead to a discovery about the balcony railing being in violation of the National Building Code (and the AB version of it).

Hey all,

I have a need for a small piece of curved transparent acrylic or plexi to be installed at my new place. I can find plenty of transparent acrylic, but curving it is not something I have the equipment for, nor do I feel like installing it myself.

Scenario: When the railing for my patio was installed, the railings didn't line up with the lines of the building and the concrete pad itself. This leaves a postage stamp of patio that falls outside of the railing, and a railing gap that a cat can fit through easily.

I've tried blocking it with a tall potted plant, and this worked up until lunch today, when I ran into the house to grab BBQ tongs, came back out and the cat was nonchalantly sitting out there and gave me a f$%#ing heart-attack. I lured him back in with his stuffed bear toy, and now I'm trying to get a better solution to keep him safe before I let him outside again

I've come up with the following idea.

A 34.25" tall piece plexi, 10" flat width, curved at 90 degrees with a 3" radius. All these measurements are rough as I did them with a tape measure in between meetings this morning. The radius is negotiable as is the thickness of the material, which I'll leave to your expertise. This piece would be bolted onto the existing railing to close the railing gap while fitting the lines of the patio glass. It will not be affixed to the building itself. As it is outside, a higher quality material to withstand the elements is preferred.

Spoiler for large images:
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I'm looking for someone to:
- procure, size, and curve the Plexiglas
- affix the Plexiglas to the aluminum railing

I'm looking to have this done sooner rather than later, so let's talk.
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Last edited by TorqueDog; 08-12-2016 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:25 PM   #2
calgarywinning
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Plexiglass is sure going to be difficult to bend over that short distance and will look pretty bad over time.

Why not get a glass company to come in and rig up something, more square with channels/glass holder and then silicone the joint. Contact the railing company and see if you can get a 45 arm and rebolt and terminate the existing railing? Just a few additional ideas.

I'm really surprised that this gap passed inspection. It's obvious how it should have been installed to begin with.

Happy you talked your cat back in!
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarywinning View Post
Plexiglass is sure going to be difficult to bend over that short distance and will look pretty bad over time.

Why not get a glass company to come in and rig up something, more square with channels/glass holder and then silicone the joint. Contact the railing company and see if you can get a 45 arm and rebolt and terminate the existing railing? Just a few additional ideas.

I'm really surprised that this gap passed inspection. It's obvious how it should have been installed to begin with.

Happy you talked your cat back in!
See, this is why I ask people who know more about this crap than I do.

Do you think this would actually fail inspection, and who could I talk to in order to get a confirmation that it doesn't pass? If I can get the management company to pay for it, then I'd rather do that than put my own money into fixing it. My first priority of course was ensuring that I don't become the owner of a tragically flat cat, but this is a good point you've raised.
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Old 08-12-2016, 03:40 PM   #4
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Code for spindle gap is 4" centre to centre. I can only imagine a railing has to finish 4" or tighter to a wall if that makes sense.

So if the centre of the post to the wall is greater than 4" id have to guess thats against code.

Unfortunately I have no idea who you can contact to get proper the proper code specs though.

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Old 08-12-2016, 04:21 PM   #5
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So, it's definitely greater than 4" centre to wall.

Spoiler!
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:38 PM   #6
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4", so go back to the builder and see if they will fix the deck to be proper.

Clearly, you would run the post to the concrete part in front of the structure and terminate it there. So move post, new rails, new glass, permanently fixed. Is it a new build or did you purchase?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:22 PM   #7
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Found my answer, 4" is slightly generous as the National Building Code specifies 100mm.

From Alberta Municipal Affairs: http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta....DeckStairs.pdf

I'm going to get the property management company to fix it, I'm not spending a dime on it.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:36 PM   #8
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TorqueDog has....a cat? Do you need a username change?

Checkout and see if other units have this deficiency in the building. A chorus of complaints will have a lot more weight than just yours, be it with the developer or the condo board.

I'm still not sure if this a new build condo or not. Assuming it's new, and in violation of code - this is definitely something the Board should be looking into and taking up with the Developer on behalf of Residents. Problem is - this could take a while (especially if a Board has not been constituted) yet you don't want a flat cat.

If I were you I'd put together a decent looking and non-permanent solution yourself at minimum cost and see what becomes of the "official" fix. You'll want to avoid putting screws into the exterior of the building (the railing should be fine, though I wouldn't just yet) as Boards can get sticky about perforating the exterior envelope.

Me - I'd come up with a few pieces of straight Plexiglass, an L bracket hopefully in matching silver, zip ties for the railing side, and some 3M Command adhesive strips as a cheap temporary solution.

Last edited by I-Hate-Hulse; 08-12-2016 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 08-13-2016, 12:22 AM   #9
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3.3.1.18. Guards
1) Except as provided in Sentence (4) and Article 3.3.2.9., a guard not less than 1070mm high shall be provided
a) around any roof to which access is provided for purposes other than maintenance,
b) at openings into smoke shafts referred to in Subsection 3.2.6. that are less than 1070mm above the floor, and
c) at each raised floor, mezzanine, balcony, gallery, interior or exterior vehicular ramp, and at other locations where the difference in level is more than 600mm.
2) Except as permitted by Sentence 3.3.2.9.(4) and unless it can be shown that the size of openings that exceed this limit does not present a hazard, there shall be no opening that permits the passage of a sphere whose diameter is more than 100mm through a guard serving
a) an exterior balcony, or
b) a room, stairway, or space not within a suite of residential occupancy
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Old 08-13-2016, 01:35 AM   #10
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So it's official. The railing does not meet code, and given this isn't a 4 ft deck but a high rise, this should have never been passed.

Again, from the photo's it's clear to see where the developer should have run the railing.

It makes me angry, because of the height, the complete disregard and the contractor that put it in.
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:19 PM   #11
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TopFive, where is that from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse View Post
TorqueDog has....a cat? Do you need a username change?

Checkout and see if other units have this deficiency in the building. A chorus of complaints will have a lot more weight than just yours, be it with the developer or the condo board.

I'm still not sure if this a new build condo or not. Assuming it's new, and in violation of code - this is definitely something the Board should be looking into and taking up with the Developer on behalf of Residents. Problem is - this could take a while (especially if a Board has not been constituted) yet you don't want a flat cat.

If I were you I'd put together a decent looking and non-permanent solution yourself at minimum cost and see what becomes of the "official" fix. You'll want to avoid putting screws into the exterior of the building (the railing should be fine, though I wouldn't just yet) as Boards can get sticky about perforating the exterior envelope.

Me - I'd come up with a few pieces of straight Plexiglass, an L bracket hopefully in matching silver, zip ties for the railing side, and some 3M Command adhesive strips as a cheap temporary solution.
HorsepowerCat?

Funny you should ask, I actually have peeked down to the suites below mine and they are ALL like this. I've informed management, provided pictures, the relevant section 9.8.8.5 from the National Building Code, and a reference from AB Municipal Affairs.

Ball is in their court, they've been pretty good to deal with so far. If they refuse, I'll just get an inspector to come in. They'll take one look at it and fail it on the spot.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:36 PM   #12
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TopFive, where is that from?
2014 Alberta Building Code
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarywinning View Post
So it's official. The railing does not meet code, and given this isn't a 4 ft deck but a high rise, this should have never been passed.

Again, from the photo's it's clear to see where the developer should have run the railing.

It makes me angry, because of the height, the complete disregard and the contractor that put it in.
It does seem odd where they ended the railing given the size and shape of the pad, however, the code states the gap should be less then 100mm edge to edge not edge to centre. My completely non-scientific analysis using paint and the provided tape measure put the gap somewhere between 9.5 and 10cm meaning the railing passes although it's close.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:07 PM   #14
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It does seem odd where they ended the railing given the size and shape of the pad, however, the code states the gap should be less then 100mm edge to edge not edge to centre. My completely non-scientific analysis using paint and the provided tape measure put the gap somewhere between 9.5 and 10cm meaning the railing passes although it's close.
No, it doesn't pass -- I re-measured corner to corner (edge to edge) and it's almost 4.5", well over the 100mm limit. Also checked our sister tower and their balcony railings do not have this problem, so it looks like our builder #### the bed on this one.
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:27 PM   #15
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Reading page two of the AB Code PDF, couldn't that be interpreted as being the distance between the vertical railings ("the opening") vs the distance between the wall and the railing?

Subtle difference, but could be enough of a reason for the developer to push back on.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:21 PM   #16
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Reading page two of the AB Code PDF, couldn't that be interpreted as being the distance between the vertical railings ("the opening") vs the distance between the wall and the railing?

Subtle difference, but could be enough of a reason for the developer to push back on.
The code is clear. You can't have an opening anywhere that a sphere 100mm in diameter can fit through.
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