2016-17 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[Machiavelli]

I haven't been able to catch a single game this season. That's no good

[CofR]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

This Rockets v Warriors game is faaaaantastic.

That game was a lot of fun! First time Steph Curry has fouled out since December of 2013

[Acey]

42 pts in the 4th quarter for the Raps tonight vs ATL

[octothorp]

Man they're rolling right now. +77 in their last 2 games. Heard the stat that they've won 11 quarters in a row... which, for a team that generally struggles with consistency even against bad teams, is very impressive.
I wish they could just keep going against average teams for a bit rather than going up against Cleveland on Monday. With the Raptors rolling, Cavs struggling a bit right now, the game in Toronto, you would think Raptors are in great shape to finally beat an elite team this year, but of course none of that seems to matter for the Cavs, they seem to turn things around on a dime when they want to.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Man they're rolling right now. +77 in their last 2 games. Heard the stat that they've won 11 quarters in a row... which, for a team that generally struggles with consistency even against bad teams, is very impressive.
I wish they could just keep going against average teams for a bit rather than going up against Cleveland on Monday. With the Raptors rolling, Cavs struggling a bit right now, the game in Toronto, you would think Raptors are in great shape to finally beat an elite team this year, but of course none of that seems to matter for the Cavs, they seem to turn things around on a dime when they want to.

Be interesting to see how they fare against the Cavs. They have got their 3pt shooting touch back which was bound to happen. But the defense which has been suspect will get a test against Lebron. They are on a roll but now can they beat a top team?

[Reneeee]

So that was a bs out of bounds call

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[St. Pats]

So the fact stares them again in the face. They can't beat top teams and Lebron owns them(of course he owns virtually every other team except maybe the Warriors). But they let the supporting cast score too much. Defensive stats may show some improvement after all the games against hopeless teams but their team defense this year has got to get better.

[octothorp]

I said it the last time they played the Cavs, but rebounding is still the big separator between these two teams. The offensive rebound battle was more or less even through the first half, but in the second Cavs were tenacious in chasing offensive rebounds and kept converting on them, which was a big part of their 3rd quarter run. Didn't change until late in the game when Cleveland went into a bit of a safe offense and backed off the O-boards, allowing Raptors to get back in it. JV was awful offensively tonight but his rebounding was fine given the elite opposition, it's more-so the second, third and fourth guys not picking up their rebounding assignments. Carroll, Siakam, and Nogueira with a combined 3 rebounds in 66 minutes tells you what you need to know.

One would like to think that Sullinger can be part of the solution there, but there also needs to be a shift in priorities. I like Siakam but he's not at a level that he can battle Thompson and Love. And same with Nogueira, though if he's matched up against Frye it's not such a problem.

When they're struggling to make 3s, they need to find a way to get more looks for Ross. He's their most consistent 3-point threat right now, yet attempted only one 3 in the first half because he's an afterthought in the offense right now.

It's also surprising that Joseph got so few minutes, even though he was playing well. 13 minutes actually ties his season low. Maybe just Casey trying to find a way to give Powell some minutes.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I said it the last time they played the Cavs, but rebounding is still the big separator between these two teams. The offensive rebound battle was more or less even through the first half, but in the second Cavs were tenacious in chasing offensive rebounds and kept converting on them, which was a big part of their 3rd quarter run. Didn't change until late in the game when Cleveland went into a bit of a safe offense and backed off the O-boards, allowing Raptors to get back in it. JV was awful offensively tonight but his rebounding was fine given the elite opposition, it's more-so the second, third and fourth guys not picking up their rebounding assignments. Carroll, Siakam, and Nogueira with a combined 3 rebounds in 66 minutes tells you what you need to know.

One would like to think that Sullinger can be part of the solution there, but there also needs to be a shift in priorities. I like Siakam but he's not at a level that he can battle Thompson and Love. And same with Nogueira, though if he's matched up against Frye it's not such a problem.

When they're struggling to make 3s, they need to find a way to get more looks for Ross. He's their most consistent 3-point threat right now, yet attempted only one 3 in the first half because he's an afterthought in the offense right now.

It's also surprising that Joseph got so few minutes, even though he was playing well. 13 minutes actually ties his season low. Maybe just Casey trying to find a way to give Powell some minutes.

Rebounding and defense are very dependant on intensity. The intensity level on the Raps has dropped this year. But their offense is executing bigtime. Maybe Sullinger can add some moxy to the lineup but I still think MU needs to pull off a deal.

[EricCartman]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I said it the last time they played the Cavs, but rebounding is still the big separator between these two teams. The offensive rebound battle was more or less even through the first half, but in the second Cavs were tenacious in chasing offensive rebounds and kept converting on them, which was a big part of their 3rd quarter run. Didn't change until late in the game when Cleveland went into a bit of a safe offense and backed off the O-boards, allowing Raptors to get back in it. JV was awful offensively tonight but his rebounding was fine given the elite opposition, it's more-so the second, third and fourth guys not picking up their rebounding assignments. Carroll, Siakam, and Nogueira with a combined 3 rebounds in 66 minutes tells you what you need to know.

One would like to think that Sullinger can be part of the solution there, but there also needs to be a shift in priorities. I like Siakam but he's not at a level that he can battle Thompson and Love. And same with Nogueira, though if he's matched up against Frye it's not such a problem.

When they're struggling to make 3s, they need to find a way to get more looks for Ross. He's their most consistent 3-point threat right now, yet attempted only one 3 in the first half because he's an afterthought in the offense right now.

It's also surprising that Joseph got so few minutes, even though he was playing well. 13 minutes actually ties his season low. Maybe just Casey trying to find a way to give Powell some minutes.

I feel like a player like Valancuinas needs to sit against the Cavs unless he is guarding Thompson. His weaknesses are truly highlighted having to guard against Channing Frye.

I'm worried that Sullinger won't be a factor this year, because he is coming back from surgery and he will need time to fit in. However, if he plays the Raptors are a much better rebounding team.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I talked in the first post of my excitement for the league, and while there is so much talent in the league and so much of it young, right now it serves as more of a way to not be totally bored between now and late May when the inevitable final four of Cleveland, Toronto, Golden State and either the Clippers or San Antonio emerges, followed by Cavs-Warriors 3. Raps are clearly still the second best team in the East, but there just doesn't seem to be a move out there that can take them over the top. Waiting for Sullinger is pretty much the definition of a wing and a prayer.

And Klay Thompson had 60 points last night in 29 minutes. And yes that does work out to a 100 point pace if he played all 48.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I talked in the first post of my excitement for the league, and while there is so much talent in the league and so much of it young, right now it serves as more of a way to not be totally bored between now and late May when the inevitable final four of Cleveland, Toronto, Golden State and either the Clippers or San Antonio emerges, followed by Cavs-Warriors 3. Raps are clearly still the second best team in the East, but there just doesn't seem to be a move out there that can take them over the top. Waiting for Sullinger is pretty much the definition of a wing and a prayer.

And Klay Thompson had 60 points last night in 29 minutes. And yes that does work out to a 100 point pace if he played all 48.

Only move that I can see moving the needle is getting Cousins. Do they have enough assets to do it? JV, at least one of their firsts, Norm or Wright or both? Is that even an attractive offer compared to what other teams will throw up IF he becomes available?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Getting Cousins means nothing if Lowry and DeRozan are still here, because they dominate the ball too much and are the clear #1 and #2 guys on this team whether we the fans like it or not. One of them would have to go in any trade. So maybe you go for a three way deal where you trade Lowry and Jonas and end up with Cousins back, and that makes sense (and even that doesn't, the Raptors are worse in that scenario). But Cousins propensity for being a bad locker room guy isn't going to help the Raptors as the #3 option. Would rather trade for Noel and get an elite defender in the middle, but the Raps have nothing to offer there. We just gotta hope Masai can work some magic.

[killer_carlson]

Agreed.

I think Lowry will be gone at the end of the season regardless so it will be interesting to see if Masai can work something to maintain value of the contract.

With the growth of DD this season, i'm not sure we need a volume shooting PG on the team.

And also agreed that you could add a prime Shaq, Kareem, or Wilt to this roster and it still wouldn't matter because Lowry and DD would combine for 30+ shots per game.

and a coach who doesn't know how to create an offence that uses the #4 or #5 position aside from setting screens.

[octothorp]

I like Cousins a lot and he's one of the few available guys I would move JV for. I'm also not as pessimistic about you guys about how a Lowry / DeRozan / Cousins core could be. Cousins' reputation as a bad locker-room guy has more with him being unhappy with always losing, rather than about his role (he's been one of the highest-usage bigs in the game for a while). He and Lowry have a good relationship, so keeping Lowry has a mentor is key if you do get him. Lowry knows a bit about having a reputation as bad attitude guy who just wants to compete and win. Offensively he brings floor spacing, versatility, and is well-suited to the grinding tempo that the Raptors play best at, while being better at passing out of the post.

Defense is where I've got worries though. He's not a particularly good pick-and-roll defender or perimeter defender... the two things that you need to really contend with Cleveland. He's good as a post defender (like JV), and he's a much better help defender. Swapping Cousins for JV makes them a better team, no question. But other than improved rebounding, I'm not sure that he really fills in the weaknesses that are keeping the Raptors at 2nd in the East.

I also think the minimum cost is JV, a draft pick, one prospect (Powell, Bebe, Poeltl, Wright, Siakam) and one other rotation player (Joseph, Ross, Patterson); and that's probably overpaying, but that's what I think the market will be, because none of the Raptors picks or prospects are really high ceiling.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I like Cousins a lot and he's one of the few available guys I would move JV for. I'm also not as pessimistic about you guys about how a Lowry / DeRozan / Cousins core could be. Cousins' reputation as a bad locker-room guy has more with him being unhappy with always losing, rather than about his role (he's been one of the highest-usage bigs in the game for a while). He and Lowry have a good relationship, so keeping Lowry has a mentor is key if you do get him. Lowry knows a bit about having a reputation as bad attitude guy who just wants to compete and win. Offensively he brings floor spacing, versatility, and is well-suited to the grinding tempo that the Raptors play best at, while being better at passing out of the post.

Defense is where I've got worries though. He's not a particularly good pick-and-roll defender or perimeter defender... the two things that you need to really contend with Cleveland. He's good as a post defender (like JV), and he's a much better help defender. Swapping Cousins for JV makes them a better team, no question. But other than improved rebounding, I'm not sure that he really fills in the weaknesses that are keeping the Raptors at 2nd in the East.

I also think the minimum cost is JV, a draft pick, one prospect (Powell, Bebe, Poeltl, Wright, Siakam) and one other rotation player (Joseph, Ross, Patterson); and that's probably overpaying, but that's what I think the market will be, because none of the Raptors picks or prospects are really high ceiling.

Cousins is one of those few guys like Lebron that can physically dominate a game IF he wants to. On a good team playing in the playoffs I bet you see a very motivated guy who will own the boards. Cause havoc underneath and in turn open up shots for everybody else on the floor. Give them more of a backbone as well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

That package is definitely not good enough when Boston has two potential top 5 picks to trade, with the Nets picks acquired in that historically brutal trade for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. Raps would have to come over the top big time, so probably JV, Powell, Cory Joseph and two first round picks is what it would take, and even that might not be good enough. Boston holds the hammer right now, if they wanna make the trade they can basically do it anytime they feel like giving up those picks. Maybe if JV had showcased more his value would be higher, but his current value really comes from screening and rebounding. The Kings already have Willie Cauley-Stein to do that, even if he's underwhelming so far.

[octothorp]

Yeah, I think in the end as much as there's some reason to think Cousins would be a fit in Toronto, Toronto's just not a very good trade partner for Sacramento. And it's tough to come up with a 3-way trade where JV goes elsewhere, Cousins comes here, and Sacramento gets what they want from the third team. Because what Sacramento probably needs is a good young PF to pair with WCS; it's more plausible to imagine another team and Sacramento making that trade directly (like, say, a trade between LA and Sac based around Cousins and Randle).

[Machiavelli]

Finally get to watch the Raptors for the first time this season, and DeRozan looks like he got hurt.

Oh, now he seems okay... was looking for a call.

Team D looks shaky AF.

[Senator Clay Davis]

D picked it up after half time. Solid road win, once again nothing this year suggests they aren't still the second best team in the East.