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View Poll Results: Do you feel not using public funds is worth the Flames moving?
Yes 180 32.26%
No 378 67.74%
Voters: 558. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2017, 04:08 PM   #3121
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Yeah, I suppose I could use a new mortgage, the one that I've already got is getting boring.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:09 PM   #3122
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Golden State is a small market team and was way below league averages in terms of profit/revenue and fan interest for 25 years until 2015
Did you seriously just call the Bay Area a Small market?

San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, East Bay etc is one of the largest television and population markets in the States.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:16 PM   #3123
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Did you seriously just call the Bay Area a Small market?

San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, East Bay etc is one of the largest television and population markets in the States.
Infested with Laker fans, and they'll all go back to being Laker fans after Golden State returns to irrelevancy
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:21 PM   #3124
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I'm much more skeptical of the Calgary hockey market, especially as our city looks to be heading to a new economic reality rather than a two to three year recession.

Ticket sales have cooled immensely over the past few years despite some exciting hockey and making the playoffs twice. The Flames have sucked literally as much money as they could out of this city for years (nothing wrong with that) and it's starting to show with many nights having thousands of unsold seats and upwards of 5k actual empty seats.

Beware the writing on the wall with this city's ability to support the Flames at the level to which this organization has grown accustomed to. The warning signs are there, and without a major rebound in oil the expected excitement to jump into a new building at much higher cost isn't going to be there in this city like it was in Edmonton. (They had perfect timing with McDavid).

And certainly beware the mostly mythical wait list. There's a waitlist for specific seats and sections, there's no waitlist to get season tickets in the building. They wisely sell the former as the latter.
Great post.

I remember years ago, I think it was cowboy89 posted soemthing about the flames hot house membership was $100 per year and the ticket agent he spoke with said the hot house had 20k members at the time.

I think I saw King say two different numbers so far this spring/summer about season ticket renewals, but both numbers (~95%) would be less than they were ~7 years ago (98%).

It would be interesting to know the hothouse membership today.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:12 PM   #3125
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I'd pay a licence if it came with rofr on my choice of 3 non-flames events each year. For 3 high demand concerts could probably make $100+ per ticket, which covers the cost of a $5-10k PSL.

Another alternative would be if the flames charged a $50 arena ticket tax on high demand concerts. Still cheaper than going to see artist play elsewhere (like flights + hotel in Vancouver). And assuming 5 good concerts per year would raise ~100m over life of arena
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:14 PM   #3126
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I'd pay a licence if it came with rofr on my choice of 3 non-flames events each year. For 3 high demand concerts could probably make $100+ per ticket, which covers the cost of a $5-10k PSL.

Another alternative would be if the flames charged a $50 arena ticket tax on high demand concerts. Still cheaper than going to see artist play elsewhere (like flights + hotel in Vancouver). And assuming 5 good concerts per year would raise ~100m over life of arena
Maybe shoot for rofr for all non flames events. Doesn't that sound even better?
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:26 PM   #3127
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Infested with Laker fans, and they'll all go back to being Laker fans after Golden State returns to irrelevancy
A fan base not deeply loyal or fair weather is not the same thing as being a small market, or big market for that matter.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:37 PM   #3128
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Why in the world would a franchise go the PSL route and then take away the one thing that PSL's offer them in financial security, year to year?

"Oh good, we've started our rebuild and we get to start by handing back $75,000,000 to 5k PSL owners, plus lose their annual season ticket revenue each year."

So yeah, I guess that would be okay...for you.
Nice of you to quote half my post. If they do a PSL with a fixed escalator on ticket prices, that would be fine with me as well. But to write them a $20k cheque and then hope they decide to be charitable on ticket prices later...

Probably not for me.

If there is a chance of me paying them $20k, and then they raise ticket prices 15% per year, so that even if my PSL is transferrable it would be worthless, I'm not going to sign up for that deal.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:41 PM   #3129
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Nice of you to quote half my post. If they do a PSL with a fixed escalator on ticket prices, that would be fine with me as well. But to write them a $20k cheque and then hope they decide to be charitable on ticket prices later...

Probably not for me.

If there is a chance of me paying them $20k, and then they raise ticket prices 15% per year, so that even if my PSL is transferrable it would be worthless, I'm not going to sign up for that deal.
I am thinking that this is exactly what a PSL will look like. It isn't about providing a tangible benefit to loyal season ticket holders. It is about the owners receiving a tangible benefit in the way of an interest free loan (and also tie the hands of season ticket holders to some extent). I believe it has worked for some NFL owners, it might work for the Golden State Warriors, but I don't think it can work here.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:46 PM   #3130
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Infested with Laker fans, and they'll all go back to being Laker fans after Golden State returns to irrelevancy
Perhaps I can't speak for the past but when I was in the Bay Area during the Warriors first title win the city was crazy with Warriors stuff everywhere. On that same trip my Wife and I drove down the coast to LA and saw a ton of Warriors fans in SoCal as well.

The team was brutal for most of my life. Outside of this current run I only recall them making the playoffs in 07 and upsetting the Mavs in round 1 with the most raucous fanbase in the league at the time.

I also think this run for the Franchise is going to keep the fair weather fans you speak of loyal to the home team. They are historically good right now and can easily win the next 3 titles
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:46 PM   #3131
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Infested with Laker fans, and they'll all go back to being Laker fans after Golden State returns to irrelevancy


I've been here since 2003. I don't recall seeing more lakers jerseys than any other non Bay Area team. But this town does hate LA team's. I can't see this happening.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:53 PM   #3132
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Somewhat off topic but there has been a lot of debate on here about whether Nenshi's statements are too combative etc.

I was reading this article about the City rejecting the Cubs request for more night games and couldn't help but parallel it with Nenshi.

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/13...-wrigley-field

Quote:
but Emanuel said that when the North Siders were offered more "evening opportunities," they decided to host more concerts instead, limiting the number of evening contests on their home field.

" ... They could have used it for night games," Emanuel told the Sun-Times' Fran Spielman. "But then, they would have to share it with Major League Baseball. The concerts they keep all for themselves like they do the beer on the plaza.

"They made those choices. Now, they want to change the consequences of the choices they made."
Obviously totally different contexts, but Emanuel's comments are pretty brazen/hilarious
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:49 AM   #3133
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Joe Magliocca says the ball is now in CSEC's court, the city is waiting for a response.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...ames-csec.html

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As the city draws closer to the municipal election, what's conspicuously missing from the agenda is a possible arena deal.

Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation president Ken King wouldn't comment on the possibility of a deal before council's last meeting in September, but has previously and very publicly stated he'd like to see a deal before voters head to the polls in October.

Sounds like some councillors would like word on a deal, too.

"I want to get it done as soon as possible," said Coun. Joe Magliocca. "Right now the ball is in their court, they have to respond to us."

Magliocca said the Calgary Sport and Entertainment Corporation was supposed to send the City of Calgary a response as part of the negotiation process, but as of Monday, he said they hadn't seen anything.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:47 AM   #3134
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That sounds like some heavy handed demands coming from the city, why can't they be more accommodating?!
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:58 AM   #3135
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I think this kind of lines up with the view they're hoping for a new council after the election that will give them the Edmonton deal, hence why they are dragging their feet right now. But it does confirm this process is indeed going to be even worse than Edmonton, despite King's insistence it wouldn't be. Maybe they really will go to the moving card if they don't get a nearly free arena.
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:10 AM   #3136
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Still no word from CSEC on the Council proposal?

It's not very likely there's going to be a major shift in council so why the delay?
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:26 AM   #3137
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Will be interesting to see the campaign donor list of Councillors running in the election and try to make the ties back to CSEC
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:28 AM   #3138
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That sounds like some heavy handed demands coming from the city, why can't they be more accommodating?!
I'm assuming you're kidding.

yeah. stupid city council, waiting and hoping CSEC will get their crap together. how mean.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:46 AM   #3139
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This type of stuff is terrible, quite talking about it and get it done.

As for the relocation quote, if that were to happen they would go to the States (i.e. Seattle) IMO.

Therefore the tax statement does not make sense.
Do you think for a second that the NHL BOG is going to approve a move to relocate Calgary, a top 10-15 revenue generating team and a Canadian Dollar that is probably going to climb higher in the next few years, when you have bottom 30 franchises like Carolina or the Islanders who would jump at the chance to relocate to Seattle?

The NHL likes money and moving a team like Calgary would be very contrary to that philosophy, arena or not.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:41 AM   #3140
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I actually think that no public news is good news. That probably means the wheels are turning behind the scenes.
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