Potential Power of Season Ticket Holders to Keep Flames in Calgary Long-Term?

[karl262]

So you were having drinks with some season ticket holders who were still undecided about renewing last night eh?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

If flames do not receive any funding and build the arena, i hope they shutter the facility when ever it does not benefit them and them alone. A facility brings alot more to this city then some care to admit. I for one am okay with some level of public funding because i will get my value out of it. One way or another. I can understand being more upset about public funding if i was a 75yr old shut in never expecting to set foot into the facility. I have more grounds to be upset about a super library down town then a arena facility.

Even better dont leave the money in the cities hands to build another big blue ring....

Firstly -- I don't image they would let the public use the facility willy nilly regardless. Concerts, trade shows, conferences, etc. pay a fee for a given venue. What do you honestly think will happen? You can just walk into YOUR publicly funded arena and do whatever you want?

Secondly -- A library is not comparable because it's not profit-generating and privately owned. An IKEA is more comparable.

Thirdly -- If an arena brings a lot to a city, then why is that tied to a sports franchise? Either an arena brings municipal value in its own merit, or it doesn't. Giving it AWAY to a business owner is just stupid. Either spend 500 million to build it, lease it, and operate it like a public facility (ie, like a library), or don't fund it and let's see if a private firm believes it has value in its own merit.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Radio

I feel like I am alone in this thought, but I think the Flames are pretty important to this city.

They pump millions of dollars into local charities. They generate a lot trickle down economy. They make us relevant in the sports world. The players "work" here in Alberta so pay taxes here in Alberta/Canada. Hell CalgaryPuck wouldn't exist if the Flames hadn't come here.

So I guess I am a moron. Because I re-up every year, every year since the save the Flames ticket drive. Because I think they are pretty important to this city. Because I like to go to the games and be part of the atmosphere, spend some time with family or friends.

Yeah sometimes games are crappy, but sometimes they're great. Sometimes I want to see certain players, see them live and what they do when they're not on camera.

Got to see Lemieux play only once and the guy was like butta. Scott Niedermayer such a fluid skater, beautiful to watch.

So yeah I am moron, but it's morons like me that make it possible for you to sit at home and watch games for free.

As for the OP. I am with the others that say it is posturing.

C'mon man, you don't think tax breaks and marketing are reasons for their charities? As for your trickle-down theory, we've been hearing about the horse-and-sparrow nonsense for years now:



And thanks for those free games!! But seriously, if there wasn't just SOOO many morons, it wouldn't cost 2000 to 10,000 for season tickets. It would be more like Tampa Bay where you can two hots, two drinks and two tickets for $100.00. And at that price, Burkie couldn't make those kinds of threats.

[Radio]

Who cares. The charity gets the needed money regardless of the motive. I expect a tax receipt when i donate, it's an incentive to donate.

You come across as the most cynical person I have never met.

Btw, you're welcome.

[Cowboy89]

This threatening to leave crap from the Flames is absolutely a garbage emotional blackmail move. The Flames threatening to leave is like as if the St. Louis Cardinals or Philadelphia Phillies threatened to leave their respective cities for a place like Oklahoma City because they promised to build a nicer ballpark.

A Canadian city with 1.5 million people in the area with above average disposable income is a superior market to operate a hockey team in and many times over compared to any available market to relocate to and potentially 2/3rds of existing markets with an NHL team. This is a NHL city and Calgarians best understand that and not let Ken King or Brian Burke be the reason to goad us into having the taxpayer cough up a bunch of money that might have better uses.

I'm a STH and huge Flames fan, but when it comes down to it if this is how the Flames feel then f-them, they can move and eventually another team either via expansion or relocation will come back. Maybe it will even be a team good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs more often than once every 10-15 years!!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I am not worked up about this at all. I don't feel blackmailed in the least. I don't feel mistreated. I don't recall any guarantees that the team had to be good or my money back.
Every STH has the right to renew or not, of course. But a 5% increase in prices and some posturing with the city isn't going to make me give the tickets up, when I think the team is looking better and better.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

C'mon man, you don't think tax breaks and marketing are reasons for their charities? As for your trickle-down theory, we've been hearing about the horse-and-sparrow nonsense for years now:

And thanks for those free games!! But seriously, if there wasn't just SOOO many morons, it wouldn't cost 2000 to 10,000 for season tickets. It would be more like Tampa Bay where you can two hots, two drinks and two tickets for $100.00. And at that price, Burkie couldn't make those kinds of threats.

This post is terrible.

[JohnnyTitan]

I'm a STH and huge Flames fan, but when it comes down to it if this is how the Flames feel then f-them, they can move and eventually another team either via expansion or relocation will come back. Maybe it will even be a team good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs more often than once every 10-15 years!!

Ya, I agree. We'll get a new team via expansion or relocation as soon as we build a nice new arena! Lol. See 'Winnipeg'

But why go through 15 years with no team?

I'm confident everyone will figure it out.

[Jacks]

Burkie speaks the obvious truth, instead of using BS politician speak, and people lose their minds!

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Burkie speaks the obvious truth, instead of using BS politician speak, and people lose their minds!

You're right. NHL players do deserve tax breaks, we should thank them for the diarrhea that is CalgaryNext and no, we aren't smarter than the people of Edmonton, Saskatchewan, or Winnipeg.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Radio

Who cares. The charity gets the needed money regardless of the motive. I expect a tax receipt when i donate, it's an incentive to donate.

You come across as the most cynical person I have never met.

Btw, you're welcome.

I don't think it's cynicism, its more business acumen. The reason the Flames players have to be so "community involved" and the team has so much presence around the city is for reasons like this, they want the public to bend over and give up their tax dollars. I mean, what marketing plan doesn't have an objective and target audience?

Sure, you can spin it as "the players have the luckiest jobs in the world" and "we have the greatest fans in the world" but ultimately it's the condition of business. They want their players to market the brand and they want their customers to be loyal, much like the snobby Apple customers won't buy an Android. Spinning it with catch phrases is just good marketing.

Basically, is it cynicism if I don't believe Ford is "built tough" or Walmart is actually "rolling back" the prices for me? Because I'm pretty sure Ford is built on a budget based on a margin and price tag. And Walmart's roll backs are based on supplier costs and stock.

Seriously, people need to stop buying into the hype. Ken King and Murray Edwards doesn't give a #### about you or any other Calgarian. They made that clear when they demanded half a billion dollars from you.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

If flames do not receive any funding and build the arena, i hope they shutter the facility when ever it does not benefit them and them alone. A facility brings alot more to this city then some care to admit. I for one am okay with some level of public funding because i will get my value out of it. One way or another. I can understand being more upset about public funding if i was a 75yr old shut in never expecting to set foot into the facility. I have more grounds to be upset about a super library down town then a arena facility.

Even better dont leave the money in the cities hands to build another big blue ring....

The City is a big part of the problem here. Don't underestimate that the emperor needs new clothes. All for the above mentioned waste of taxpayer funds and the ones you do not see. The CoC (City of Calgary) is a ballooned, overfed narcissistic out of tune organization. No wonder they can't get a deal done with Murray Edwards.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Firstly -- I don't image they would let the public use the facility willy nilly regardless. Concerts, trade shows, conferences, etc. pay a fee for a given venue. What do you honestly think will happen? You can just walk into YOUR publicly funded arena and do whatever you want?

Secondly -- A library is not comparable because it's not profit-generating and privately owned. An IKEA is more comparable.

Thirdly -- If an arena brings a lot to a city, then why is that tied to a sports franchise? Either an arena brings municipal value in its own merit, or it doesn't. Giving it AWAY to a business owner is just stupid. Either spend 500 million to build it, lease it, and operate it like a public facility (ie, like a library), or don't fund it and let's see if a private firm believes it has value in its own merit.

You just dont get it. I speak on a personal level citing my percived value and you come back with ikea relevance.

Your third point is more speaking to my point then yours. Most cities on any population level does have a facility, it might be a facility for a different level of sport but there almost always is a facility. Again mutual benefit between sport/entertainement/industry.

Who was to own CalgaryNext?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

You just dont get it. I speak on a personal level citing my percived value and you come back with ikea relevance.

Your third point is more speaking to my point then yours. Most cities on any population level does have a facility, it might be a facility for a different level of sport but there almost always is a facility. Again mutual benefit between sport/entertainement/industry.

Who was to own CalgaryNext?

We already have a facility. The primary benefits of a new one are:

1) Way more luxury boxes for bigger profits for the Flames
2) Higher ticket prices on all seats for bigger profits for the Flames
3) A few extra concerts a year with a stronger roof.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

We already have a facility. The primary benefits of a new one are:

1) Way more luxury boxes for bigger profits for the Flames
2) Higher ticket prices on all seats for bigger profits for the Flames
3) A few extra concerts a year with a stronger roof.

4) Not having to pee your pants
5) Being able to buy a beer without missing playing time
6) Going for dinner before the game somewhere closer than a 30 minute walk from the arena

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by heep223

4) Not having to pee your pants
5) Being able to buy a beer without missing playing time
6) Going for dinner before the game somewhere closer than a 30 minute walk from the arena

Items 4 and 5 are not going to change and may even get worse. I have been to many of the newer facilities and when its a full house you have to wait, regardless of how new the building is. Now if your at an Arizona game with 600 people at the game, there is no wait.

There is no way you can build a place with 15K toilets, so they build what makes financial sense and that will always fill up at peak times.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Items 4 and 5 are not going to change and may even get worse. I have been to many of the newer facilities and when its a full house you have to wait, regardless of how new the building is. Now if your at an Arizona game with 600 people at the game, there is no wait.

There is no way you can build a place with 15K toilets, so they build what makes financial sense and that will always fill up at peak times.

Disagree. Though I haven't been around the league the rinks I've been to ie MSG, Staples Center, Honda Center, even for playoff games going to the bathroom and getting a beer gets you back in your seats with plenty of time. Not a chance at the saddledome, doubly for weekend games and playoffs.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by heep223

Disagree. Though I haven't been around the league the rinks I've been to ie MSG, Staples Center, Honda Center, even for playoff games going to the bathroom and getting a beer gets you back in your seats with plenty of time. Not a chance at the saddledome, doubly for weekend games and playoffs.

I guess it depends on where you are sitting. I'm in Orange and I can easily do both in a commercial break and not miss the game.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by heep223

Disagree. Though I haven't been around the league the rinks I've been to ie MSG, Staples Center, Honda Center, even for playoff games going to the bathroom and getting a beer gets you back in your seats with plenty of time. Not a chance at the saddledome, doubly for weekend games and playoffs.

Again, it depends where you are sitting, this has not really been a problem from my Saddledome seats either. The dome is fine, but i do understand that he team needs more revenue. Lets not make it out to be an improvement for the typical fan.

We will have to agree to disagree, our experiences have been different. The Canadian rinks(ie. Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton and Vancouver) tend to fill up more then the US arenas. My experience has been that with few exceptions the Honda center is never full.

Now if you wan to talk about stadiums, Wembly was built 5 years ago and it still has full bathrooms at halftime.

You were probably sitting in executive/club seats.

[heep223]

I'm sure it does depend, but I've sat all around the dome and had more or less the same issue. Sure you can race people or leave a bit early, that's beside the point. But maybe you guys just have great sections. Admittedly haven't sat on the ends much.

As for the other rinks I was indeed in club seats in Staples, the other two not so. Playoffs too. But yeah I've only been in those three but they were night and day better than the dome.

All I'm saying is that it'd be nice to have better facilities. Not really an argument for public money or anything, but my view is that there is a tangible benefit to the average fan.