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Old 07-09-2017, 07:56 PM   #341
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Simply because they're 17 year olds playing in pro leagues in Sweden and Finland . All the scouts have seen them multiple occasions and they're not judged by stats but skating shot defensive ability and probable upside. Makar is probably the fastest and best skater in this draft and his puck carrying ability is huge. No way Foote should of went ahead of Valimaki as he is far superior in all those regards compared to Foote. His dads reputation got him selected there.
In the interview after the puck Yzerman talked about a RHD being a need. They may have prioritized Foote in part due to his handedness
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:38 AM   #342
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I haven't seen the kid play, but from what I read, defence and smarts are the reason why he was mid-first. Offence is just a plus. Somehow, however, he put up huge offensive numbers? I'm puzzled as to why he was so underrated.

Could be foot speed. Could be attitude. Could be conditioning. Who knows?
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:41 AM   #343
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My impression is that it's defensive decision-making that Välimäki needs to improve, but I can't recall where I got that.

Reports about his attitude were very positive, I'm pretty sure.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:44 AM   #344
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Simply because they're 17 year olds playing in pro leagues in Sweden and Finland . All the scouts have seen them multiple occasions and they're not judged by stats but skating shot defensive ability and probable upside. Makar is probably the fastest and best skater in this draft and his puck carrying ability is huge. No way Foote should of went ahead of Valimaki as he is far superior in all those regards compared to Foote. His dads reputation got him selected there.
I agree for the most part but Vegas selecting Brannstrom ahead of Valimaki and Liljegren is a total head-scratcher to me, a happy one though
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:54 AM   #345
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I agree for the most part but Vegas selecting Brannstrom ahead of Valimaki and Liljegren is a total head-scratcher to me, a happy one though
And Tre got his choice. 🤔
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:18 AM   #346
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I agree for the most part but Vegas selecting Brannstrom ahead of Valimaki and Liljegren is a total head-scratcher to me, a happy one though
Brannstrom is really really good and thinks the game at another level than Liljegren. Apparently he's been the star of Vegas' camp.
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:13 AM   #347
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Brannstrom is really really good and thinks the game at another level than Liljegren. Apparently he's been the star of Vegas' camp.
I'm not surprised. The only issue with Brannstrom is size. Liljegren had scouts questioning his hockey sense, despite his unreal skating. This year's Kylington?
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:05 AM   #348
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I haven't seen the kid play, but from what I read, defence and smarts are the reason why he was mid-first. Offence is just a plus. Somehow, however, he put up huge offensive numbers? I'm puzzled as to why he was so underrated.

Could be foot speed. Could be attitude. Could be conditioning. Who knows?
Why do you think he was underrated?

I think the answer is this draft was deeper than the narrative beforehand that everyone kept parroting about it being a weak draft.

He's a good defencemen with very few discernable weaknesses. Only weakness I saw in the scouting reports is that he's not overly physical. It's possible to get extremely high upside players in the mid 1st, doesn't mean we need to dream up flaws that aren't there.

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Old 07-10-2017, 11:50 AM   #349
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A number of Finnish hockey fans on HF have been saying that Valimaki has been on the radar for years now, and many of them consider him as one of the best defencemen this year ahead of some other big names.

I also think Brannstrom was a good pick by Vegas. I remember reading about him and how scouts came away more impressed by him than Liljegren all season long, and how Brannstrom seemed to be making things happen on the ice when he is out there, while Liljegren didn't seem to be doing the same. I thought that Brannstrom would go ahead of Liljegren based on that, but Liljegren had the 'name' so you never know.

I am just happy the Flames got Valimaki. Complete defencemen who can play in all situations and will be a work-horse. Sounds great for me. Brannstrom and Liljegren both have holes and question marks. Valimaki has great upside and few holes. I will take that every day.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:10 PM   #350
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My impression is that it's defensive decision-making that Välimäki needs to improve, but I can't recall where I got that.

Reports about his attitude were very positive, I'm pretty sure.
I think he said it in his interviews and Treliving and the scouts reiterated that fact. My understanding on Valimaki is that he is at the current moment good at many attributes which is why his floor is higher than someone like Liljegren. He knows he needs to improve and is perhaps more harsh on his own misgivings than the average player. I recall one interview where Tre said something along the lines of (in response to a question about Valimaki's comment about his weakness), "He said that is his weakness? It's a strength of his, but I agree he can definitely improve on that aspect."

IMO Chychrun was over analyzed and that's why he fell. I am wondering if Liljegren is similar, or if there's serious questions about his game that scouts noted that make him more a long term project vs an over analyzed player. Liljegren wasn't healthy this season. A huge reason why he fell. Chychrun was also not healthy his draft season and a major reason he fell.

I however and happy with the Valimaki selection the more that I read about him and listen to his interviews. However, I will also say that it seems the trajectory expected of his development (lower floor #2, lower ceiling #4 Dman), Valimaki will fit better in a 3-5 year cup contention window than a player like Liljegren (High ceiling - Karlsson, lower floor - Kylington trajectory thus far).

Also, it looks like Valimaki at his prime weight will be a really heavy and solid defender size wise to play against. I'm also hoping he's indestructible like other products that come out of his home town.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:50 PM   #351
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IMO Chychrun was over analyzed and that's why he fell. I am wondering if Liljegren is similar, or if there's serious questions about his game that scouts noted that make him more a long term project vs an over analyzed player. Liljegren wasn't healthy this season. A huge reason why he fell. Chychrun was also not healthy his draft season and a major reason he fell.
I'll say this, for Liljegren, I valued him a lot less at 5'11" than i did thinking he was 6'0" or taller. His combine measurement made me do a double take. Going into the season he was supposed to be around Drew Doughty or PK Subban-sized, but he turned out to be closer to Ryan Ellis or Anton Stralman sized. Which doesn't make him a bad prospect - I still wanted him - but probably put a bit of a ceiling on his overall upside. Not many #1 defensemen are under 6'0" - only Karlsson comes to mind and he is the best offensive defenseman since Orr.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:20 PM   #352
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I'll say this, for Liljegren, I valued him a lot less at 5'11" than i did thinking he was 6'0" or taller. His combine measurement made me do a double take. Going into the season he was supposed to be around Drew Doughty or PK Subban-sized, but he turned out to be closer to Ryan Ellis or Anton Stralman sized. Which doesn't make him a bad prospect - I still wanted him - but probably put a bit of a ceiling on his overall upside. Not many #1 defensemen are under 6'0" - only Karlsson comes to mind and he is the best offensive defenseman since Orr.
1 inch makes that much of a difference? I know in some places it does but in this instance I wouldn't say it is a big deal.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:03 PM   #353
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Leafs fans are already penciling in Liljegren as top 2 dman. We missed the boat...
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:08 PM   #354
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Well average sized to below average sized defensemen have issues they have to overcome in order to defend effectively at the NHL level. Size is always a concern at that position. You've got to think how is this kid going to be able to handle a Toews, Kopitar, Getzlaf, etc in the corners? How will they handle them in front of the net? How can they defend them? How can they get the puck off them? Can they ever win a puck battle? If they lack size/strength then they'll have to be exceptional with skating and stick work, like world class.

I'd consider 6'0 below average for a defensemen. Any smaller than that and you start to have a lot of concerns on how they will defend. I know people will point to Timonen, Enstrom, or Gostibehere or whoever but the small defensemen in the NHL are the exception not the rule. Not every undersized kid will be able to adequately defend at the NHL level. There's a lot of big, skilled forwards and if they can just stiff arm you or shove you over you're going to get owned repeatedly.

1" might not be a huge difference but there is still a lot of long term concern about how below average sized defensemen will be able to defend in their own zone.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #355
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1 inch makes that much of a difference? I know in some places it does but in this instance I wouldn't say it is a big deal.
The difference between a Ryan Ellis and a PK Subban might just be an inch and nothing else, as the overall skill levels are comparably elite. Is it a big deal or not? One guy, I would say is a bonafide elite #1 defenseman who can handle any situation and the other guy an excellent #3 who's best used with some offensive push.

If I am drafting a player, I'm a lot more excited to draft a PK Subban than a Ryan Ellis.

That's all I'm saying.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:32 PM   #356
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1 inch makes that much of a difference? I know in some places it does but in this instance I wouldn't say it is a big deal.
An inch does make a difference - remember this speech-

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Old 07-11-2017, 12:31 AM   #357
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If there's an official source for this video, I'll change it.

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Old 07-12-2017, 11:11 PM   #358
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Gotta admire the goals Valimaki is setting!

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"I'm doing everything that I can to play with the Calgary Flames [in 2017-18]," said Valimaki, who had 61 points (19 goals, 42 assists) in 60 games with Tri-City of the Western Hockey League last season. "That's where my goal is right now. But it's not the end of the world if I still play in junior. I'm working to play in the NHL.

https://www.nhl.com/news/flames-juus...on/c-290363566
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:46 PM   #359
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@coreypronman
Valimaki (CGY) is near 10 high-level games played already this season before NHL camps even start but has been excellent through all.

Apparently scored today and was fantastic throughout the entire 4 nations cup
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:24 PM   #360
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Kylington - Andersson
Valimaki - Fox

Seriously, the last 3 drafts (15-17) have been home runs for us.
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