Fleury overdue for recognition by Flames

[flamesfever]

Perhaps he should consider that the fact that his number has never been used since he left is honour enough for the present. I'd recommend that he be patient and use his experience to help others. Time heals all wounds, and I believe that some day his sweater will be raised.

[Mr.Coffee]

Met him once at a buddy's party. As the story goes there is a fee for him to grace you with his presence, which was a little steep for what my friend's wife wanted to pay. She was trying to line up a meet and greet because Fleury was my friend's idol growing up. She couldn't really afford the fee at the time. After a couple email exchanges with Fleury's wife or gf or whatever, somehow Theoren himself found out about the situation and either waived or significantly reduced the price (can't remember, but I thought it was decent of him). He was a pretty good guy, shared some stories and such, stayed longer than he said he would to chat to people.

I think for me it's that nobody is going to wear 14 again. So... it's pretty much as good as retired already, and might as well make it official. Just none of this Forever a Flame nonsense they started which was a gigantic mistake IMO.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Odd logic
Flames have honored every player that is in the hall that played significant time for them
Fleury isn't in the Hall
Therefore it isn't relevant.

You are arguing that since he deserves to be in the Hall he should have his number honored. But the fact is - he ain't.

To draw a parallel. Doug Gilmour is also not in the Hall and not honored by the Flames. Should he be in the Hall? Maybe. Does that mean he would have to be honored by the Flames? No.

Ummmmnnn, Doug Gilmour is in the Hockey Hall of fame.

[Yrebmi]

deserves to be honored? - YES!

deserves more so than Lanny? - Nope

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Maybe the Flames already offered to recognize Theo as a "Forever a Flame" since the team is not retiring numbers anymore.

Maybe Theo rejected the offer because he wants his number retired.

I am just speculating.

I don't think Theo is ready for the honor.
Maybe in 10 years.

This is quite an interesting theory and honestly I think quite possible.

[Clever_Iggy]

I feel that every time he gets close, he says something dumb and sets himself back a bunch of years. He just can't help himself. If there's a choice between being humble, supportive or silent versus self-serving, negative or backhanded, Fleury will always choose the latter. Obviously Flames ownership has a criteria that goes beyond the ice, which is there prerogative. If Fleury is too dense to figure that out, his loss.

The last thing the Flames want is to have him bad mouth a current player, management or the organization during his retirement ceremony or thereafter.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I agree that Fleury deserves all the same accolades, but I don't think it's fair to tarnish the memory of MacInnis as a Flame. He never said anything bad about Calgary or the Flames, only that he felt more connected to the Blues organization. He was nothing but awesome as a Flame. At the very least he never pulled Gilmour or Nieuwendyk.

No, MacInnis never trashed the Flames but he was involved in a pretty ugly bar incident in 1989 that went to court.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Odd logic
Flames have honored every player that is in the hall that played significant time for them
Fleury isn't in the Hall
Therefore it isn't relevant.

You are arguing that since he deserves to be in the Hall he should have his number honored. But the fact is - he ain't.

To draw a parallel. Doug Gilmour is also not in the Hall and not honored by the Flames. Should he be in the Hall? Maybe. Does that mean he would have to be honored by the Flames? No.

Might be just my opinion but Gilmour shouldn't be close to Fleury in popularity as a Flame.

To me Fleury should be at least 3rd for flames all time only behind Macdonald and MacInnis. And Macdonald only gets the nod because he was a "nicer" person. fans are either too young or just plain fickle if they don't remember how good Fleury was for the flames.

[Petros]

Fleury officialy retired sept 2009. Is the next vote his first year of eligibility or was it this year for hall of fame.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by redforever

No, MacInnis never trashed the Flames but he was involved in a pretty ugly bar incident in 1989 that went to court.

If it wasn't for a good buddy of mine Al and his brother would have at least lost their teeth that night, they were definitely messing with the wrong people.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by T@T

If it wasn't for a good buddy of mine Al and his brother would have at least lost their teeth that night, they were definitely messing with the wrong people.

And lots of teeth were lost and lots of blood was spilled...it was an ugly incident.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by T@T

Might be just my opinion but Gilmour shouldn't be close to Fleury in popularity as a Flame.

To me Fleury should be at least 3rd for flames all time only behind Macdonald and MacInnis. And Macdonald only gets the nod because he was a "nicer" person. fans are either too young or just plain fickle if they don't remember how good Fleury was for the flames.

Or they don't appreciate alumni who bad mouth the organization

[MoBiBu]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Odd logic
Flames have honored every player that is in the hall that played significant time for them
Fleury isn't in the Hall
Therefore it isn't relevant.

You are arguing that since he deserves to be in the Hall he should have his number honored. But the fact is - he ain't.

To draw a parallel. Doug Gilmour is also not in the Hall and not honored by the Flames. Should he be in the Hall? Maybe. Does that mean he would have to be honored by the Flames? No.

Lanny MacDonald had his number retired in 1990 by the Flames... he was the first Flame in the Hall of Fame in 1992.

Al MacInnis had his number retired in 2006 by the Blues... he was elected to the Hall of Fame in 2007.

I had originally went off on a tangent that Fleury belongs in the Hall despite his personality using examples like Sawchuk, Shore and Lafleur - I'm showing any argument that Fleury belongs in the Hall is equivalent to making the argument the Fleury is overdue recognition by the Flames by the logic that every Flame Hall of Fame player has been honoured.

Really, it should be the Flames who should honour him before he shows up in the Hall, as he should. It would look bad on the Flames organization if Theo ends up in the Hall before the Flames acknowledge his play here formally themselves.

As redforever pointed out, Gilmour is in the Hall... and Toronto has already raised his number (in 2009, 2 years before he was put in the Hall of Fame) as is appropriate considering his tenure with the Leafs.

Maybe a good question to ask is this:

Would the Flames not recognizing Fleury impede him being placed in the Hall of Fame?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Or they don't appreciate alumni who bad mouth the organization

I never said Fleury was the brightest star in the sky, but as far as fan popularity and overall talent he was one of the best this team ever saw and will ever in the future.

[redforever]

A huge issue for me as a fan, and I know it has been discussed in other threads, is the fact that 2 former Flames have had their numbers retired while 2 former flames have just been honored as Forever a Flame. To me, that is a comparison that has been put up high for 20,000 fans to see, basically saying, we feel one was more important than the other. Honor players one way or the other but please don't do both.

While that might not have been the intent, that is how it reads to me. And I don't think that in today's day and age of hockey, you can justify that by saying, well one played more games than the other. It is very rare, in fact don't think it happens anymore, that an NHL player has his whole career with only one team.

So, if that is not the case, then let the numbers speak for themselves. And to try and justify not honoring what Fleury did for the Flames just because he speaks before he thinks is petty IMO.

Instead, try and think what he has done for others who were in his shoes and for his contributions in trying to stop the cycle of abuse.

If I have to weigh spouting off without thinking against overcoming a background like he came from and going on to help others, I know where I put my vote.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by redforever

A huge issue for me as a fan, and I know it has been discussed in other threads, is the fact that 2 former Flames have had their numbers retired while 2 former flames have just been honored as Forever a Flame. To me, that is a comparison that has been put up high for 20,000 fans to see, basically saying, we feel one was more important than the other. Honor players one way or the other but please don't do both.

While that might not have been the intent, that is how it reads to me. And I don't think that in today's day and age of hockey, you can justify that by saying, well one played more games than the other. It is very rare, in fact don't think it happens anymore, that an NHL player has his whole career with only one team.

So, if that is not the case, then let the numbers speak for themselves. And to try and justify not honoring what Fleury did for the Flames just because he speaks before he thinks is petty IMO.

Instead, try and think what he has done for others who were in his shoes and for his contributions in trying to stop the cycle of abuse.

If I have to weigh spouting off without thinking against overcoming a background like he came from and going on to help others, I know where I put my vote.

Best post in this thread. Excellent.

[Schraderbrau]

His number should without a doubt be in the rafters at the dome. Not so sure he will get into the hall of fame though.

Here is a question, iggy only has a couple years left in his career. Will 12 or 14 be hung first?

[Calgary4LIfe]

What Fleury went through was horrific. There is nothing anyone can say differently about what he went through. I can't even imagine. However, should all victims of horrible things be excused for their continual bad behavior? I think you can understand and try to help, but you simply can not make excuses in the long run for that bad behavior and allow it to continue happening.

I think about it this way:

The Flames did everything possible for Fleury. They gave him a chance when most teams were not interested in small players. They decided to keep him ahead of other stars. They gave him the best opportunities. They kept his drinking (remember, he would show up drunk for games at times even) hidden. They even worked hard at getting Fleury reinstated and allowed Fleury to go out with some class.

How were they repaid? Fleury made disparaging remarks about the team - specifically singling out one of the classiest players on the team (Conroy). He embarrassed the team. In hindsight, I bet there were a few executives on the team that immediately regretted helping Fleury out. Now he tweets out some article on why he should be retired by said organization? Why would the Flames do this now? So they can get further embarrassed by him at some point - probably including the actual retirement ceremony? I don't think so.

Everyone remembers Fleury as a super-skilled guy who played with an incredible amount of courage and skill. I remember Fleury for those attributes as well, but I also remember him for his "I shouldn't have to practice since I am so good and it makes me tired". I remember him as this overly-selfish player on the ice who constantly got away with it because he was the only 'star', and I remember thinking "This team would do better without him."

A poster says he is embarrassed at not having Fleury retired. Well, I would be embarrassed if the Flames acknowledge him in any way. What they did (getting him reinstated, letting him tryout for the team, and then allowing him to retire with class and dignity) was what I would call the 'first step'. What did he do? He bit them right on their ass. Why on Earth would the Flames go out of their way to do anything further with him?

Flames need to honor (and especially retire) players who have not only had great on-ice success, but have also epitomized what a good team mate is, and what a good symbol he was for the team and community. I think Fleury hits on one of those 3. Not deserving of a retirement or even an honoring. How can anyone expect to be honored when they have dishonored the organization?

[To Be Quite Honest]

If Hockey was an individual sport then Fleury should be recognized based on his points alone, but Hockey is a team sport not just on the ice but off the ice, in practice, the gym and team/community outings. Theo may have been a fantastic player on the ice but off he was severely lacking.

[Resolute 14]

In this thread: bitter small people.

The simple truth is, Fleury's number is retired, and has been since 1999. It is pretty lame that the org hasn't found it's way to formalizing this yet.