[News] Official: Monahan, Bouma, & Gaudreau scratched against Leafs

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by manwiches

Commentary on the FAN960 right now, but they are talking about the potential of taking the 'A' from Monahan. Not saying it's a permanent thing, but perhaps a necessary thing to do given the situation and accountability.

Ridiculous. This incident probably makes him a better leader going forward.

If he continues to show problems, then maybe at some point you look at that. But everyone makes mistakes. The question is: do you learn from them?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Has there been any concrete evidence presented that this has been a systemic issue, or is this more of a one-off mistake?

No concrete evidence. But various former players and NHL insiders have said that making players healthy scratches is the nuclear option that only happens after other tactics to address disciplinary problems don't work. So either this isn't the first time, or the 2016 Flames are the most hard-assed NHL organization in living memory. I'm inclined to believe the former.

[polak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not criticizing the charitable effort. Pointing out that this didn't match the "underprivileged kid didn't get to see Gaudreau" scenario that Polak tried to make.

I never made this scenario. MarkGio played the "poor kids would kill to see this game" card and I just flipped it. It's a ridiculous scenario.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by polak

I never made this scenario. MarkGio played the "poor kids would kill to see this game" card and I just flipped it. It's a ridiculous scenario.

fair enough

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ridiculous. This incident probably makes him a better leader going forward.

If he continues to show problems, then maybe at some point you look at that. But everyone makes mistakes. The question is: do you learn from them?

To be fair they mentioned taking it for a few games to send a message. I think doing that and then returning it would really grow him as a leader.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No concrete evidence. But various former players and NHL insiders have said that making players healthy scratches is the nuclear option that only happens after other tactics to address disciplinary problems don't work. So either this isn't the first time, or the 2016 Flames are the most hard-assed NHL organization in living memory. I'm inclined to believe the former.

Was it a nuclear option for Ovechkin earlier this season? By all accounts is was a one and done mistake there too.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I didn't see this earlier. It's from a Sportsnet article:

And here’s the kicker: On Wednesday the Flames begin their “Dad’s Trip” through San Jose and Arizona. As such, all of the Flames fathers were in the Saddledome seats Tuesday night.

Ouch.

The Dad's probably came in early to attend the team Superbowl party

[CaptainCrunch]

It could be worse, we could have our version of Richards and Carter playing the role of the drunky brothers here.

I doubt its that situation.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Was it a nuclear option for Ovechkin earlier this season? By all accounts is was a one and done mistake there too.

I have no idea if Ovechkin had any problems being late or hung over before he sat. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. A team is never going to come and publicly mention needing to take a player aside to ream him out for this stuff. Punishment only becomes public knowledge once it reaches the level of scratching the player - everything else stays behind closed doors.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It could be worse, we could have our version of Richards and Carter playing the role of the drunky brothers here.

I doubt its that situation.

And even if it could develop that way, this is nipping it in the bud, hopefully. I don't think the Flyers ever intervened with those two.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No concrete evidence. But various former players and NHL insiders have said that making players healthy scratches is the nuclear option that only happens after other tactics to address disciplinary problems don't work. So either this isn't the first time, or the 2016 Flames are the most hard-assed NHL organization in living memory. I'm inclined to believe the former.

True, however I remember Hartley stating last year that he'd had zero issues or problems with any of his players. Could there have been issues throughout this year? Sure, but I don't think Hartley has been soft on them by any means.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have no idea if Ovechkin had any problems being late or hung over before he sat. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. A team is never going to come and publicly mention needing to take a player aside to ream him out for this stuff. Punishment only becomes public knowledge once it reaches the level of scratching the player - everything else stays behind closed doors.

Not really though, it was public knowledge that Monahan and Bouma were late for practise a full day before they were rumoured to be scratched. Certainly if it was an ongoing issue some media member would have noticed by now.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Was it a nuclear option for Ovechkin earlier this season? By all accounts is was a one and done mistake there too.

That's kind of what I'm getting at.

If they've been showing up late to a bunch of practices, well that is a different story. But I haven't seen that reported at all.

By all accounts, this is the first time I've seen anything reported in the media about them being late for team functions. Seems more like a "boys will be boys" type scenario where younger players make a mistake, receive discipline, and hopefully learn going forward.

Management threw down the gauntlet on them, I would expect that this will be the end of the story given the void of previously reported occurrences.

[Benched]

my guess is if the team was firing on on cylinders and the boys crushed it at practice after showing up late, there would have been a more lenient response.

team is where it is.

they couldn't even do a short practice.

More about setting the tone IMO.


Doubt there is a 'history of behavior issues' here. That sounds like pure speculation from writers looking for a new angle. Think it's far simpler. We're not good enough, and sliding from not good enough backwards is unacceptable, especially when the effort is sub-standard (ie. showing up on time, doing the practice). The 'team rules' was probably valid, most teams have the rule you show up on time for practice, but IF there is anything more to this than what it is on the surface it's 'tone setting' what will/won't be tolerated.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have no idea if Ovechkin had any problems being late or hung over before he sat. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. A team is never going to come and publicly mention needing to take a player aside to ream him out for this stuff. Punishment only becomes public knowledge once it reaches the level of scratching the player - everything else stays behind closed doors.

I disagree with you. A player could have a squeaky clean record and be a coach's proverbial pet, but if he shows up late for practice, he gets scratched. Period. No coaching staff would sweep that under the rug unless it was a legit reason like blizzard, car accident, or other emergency.

Showing up 15 minutes before hitting the ice IS late, by the way.

I highly doubt there are attitude or behavioral problems with these three players. This was a one off mistake, and they paid. Hopefully all three learned something from it.

[Otto-matic]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/pos...092/c-41101603

Here is Bob's post game.

New backdrop!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Not really though, it was public knowledge that Monahan and Bouma were late for practise a full day before they were rumoured to be scratched. Certainly if it was an ongoing issue some media member would have noticed by now.

They were also sent off early from practice before the whole practice was cut short due to a pissed off Hartley.

Put 2 and 2 together here.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They were also sent off early from practice before the whole practice was cut short due to a pissed off Hartley.
.

Yeah, the whole incident. Only Bouma was sent off, then Hartley cut the practice short by storming out, upset at the whole team.

Apologies for putting two and two together but not making assumptions. I'm open to the idea there was more, could very well have been. Think it's silly to automatically assume that though.

Bouma and Monahan being late was reported that afternoon. A possible scratching came out well after that. Have Calgary sports media been ignoring previous incidents? Why haven't previous incidents surfaced now with this story? Eric Francis would be all over this.

My take? Putting two and two together. Players had a Superbowl Party got pretty drunk. Monday's abbreviated practice was designed to skate the booze out. Monahan, Gaudreau and Bouma took advantage of that, got a little too drunk, didn't wake up, whatever, showed up late for practice. Entire team looked like garbage, Bouma especially, he was sent off. Hartley is pissed at the team, storms off the ice ending the skate.

Monahan, Gaudreau, Bouma given the game off as punishment.

None of that is hard to believe, none of that would suggest an ongoing issue. The media was all over this pretty fast, if there was more, we probably would have heard about it at the time, or now since the nuclear option was used.

Might there be more? Could be, don't think anyone is a rube if they disagree though.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They were also sent off early from practice before the whole practice was cut short due to a pissed off Hartley.

Put 2 and 2 together here.

OK. Hamilton's an uppity loner who can't even get in trouble like a normal kid making millions of dollars.

[Flash Walken]

The flames would have avoided last night's circus around the scratches if they could've but obviously felt like it was worth it to bench THREE players (2 leading scorers).

This tells me it was pretty much the nuclear option and that those 3 are all on thin ice.

Honestly, has a team ever made their 2 top scorers a healthy scratch in the middle of the season? As far as I know, it's pretty much unprecedented which I think tells you even more about the seriousness of the punishment.