Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Isn't traditional TV viewership declining across the board (except live sports)? is there any evidence that CBC is doing proportionally worse than anything else?

That's kind of the point. We all know where the industry is heading so why not take off the band-aids now rather than continuing to sink money into a dying medium? Like I said before it's inevitable.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Cable TV and cable news is a dying business. What exactly do you think is CBC's future? Honestly do you really, really think it's sustainable?

The fact that that's all you think CBC is really does show a misunderstanding of it.

[PepsiFree]

I watch the CBC but haven’t had cable in nearly a decade.

How DO I manage.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I watch the CBC but haven’t had cable in nearly a decade.

How DO I manage.

I listen to CBC radio Canada to keep my French.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

my sense is a lot of people who do defend the CBC today only take that stance because outspoken Canadian conservatives hate it. Just another front on the culture wars

Wrong. I watch and listen to CBC because I legitimately enjoy their programming. I also think their news reporting and journalism is top notch compared to the competition, and I watch the National daily. They're also a great platform for independent artists in this country, particularly CBC radio/podcasts, etc...

The fact that it annoys people on the right so much is nothing more than a humorous added bonus. Seems to me that the CBC is just another thing that conservatives like to put on their list of things that make them angry...which is everything these days.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Isn't traditional TV viewership declining across the board (except live sports)? is there any evidence that CBC is doing proportionally worse than anything else?

TV viewership is declining across the board. But CBC’s share of that declining viewership is shrinking even vaster.

By that measure, CBC English-language television is failing badly. CBC’s third-quarter report shows its share of the national prime-time viewing audience dropped to 4.4 per cent (excluding Saturday), down sharply from 7.6 per cent in 2018, and trending below target for the year. Or, to turn that around: 95.6 per cent of TV-viewing Canadians do not tune in to CBC’s English language prime-time programming.

Supper-hour newscasts in English-speaking markets are attracting tiny audiences. In Calgary, the CBC daily broadcast reaches just 20,000 people, on average.

As English TV audiences have been shrinking, the CBC’s annual government funding has increased, up nearly 21 per cent from 2016, to $1.24-billion in 2022. (That funding is for all of CBC’s operations, not just English television.)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...lk-about-that/

The CBC TV news ratings are 50 per cent lower than CTV’s ratings.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It could. The example of the BBC - the institution the CBC is modelled after - may have no relevance to Canada. Canadian conservatives may be a lost cause.

But I’ll ask again: By what criteria should we judge the stewardship of the CBC?

I think your metric might be useful if one political party didn’t turn this into a political issue. Outside of some early fights with Diefenbaker it isn’t until Harper that define the CBC became a thing. Did that come from some actual change in CBC or was it people looking for a Villian.

When do you see the point of the CBC not being representative of the public occurring causing the distrust? Because if one looks in 2015 the spread between conservatives and NDP was not nearly as large.

In 2015. 66% of conservatives viewed the CBC favourably.

Political orientation is strongly related to views of the CBC. Specifically, supporters of the opposition Liberals and New Democrats are more intensely favourable towards the CBC than those who supported the Conservatives in the last federal election. Among Conservatives, two-in-three still give the CBC overall favourable ratings but the one-in-three unfavourable represents almost three times the number of critics found among opposition party supporters.

https://angusreid.org/canadian-culture/#gsc.tab=0

The other thing to note is the lack of regional bias. Ontario’s and Alberta and BC were essentially the same

Not quite the same survey from 2023
https://angusreid.org/wp-content/upl...ent_tables.pdf

Look at the regionalism number in defunding the CBC compared to 2015. Has the CBC gotten worse than 2015 tar sands fever at representing Alberta? Or is something else driving opinions.

This doesn’t answer your question of metrics but I think being equally liked by the political spectrum is a poor metric since hating the CBC as become a party brand. You yourself believe that the metric you propose is flawed as you believe that liking the CBC is about sticking it to the conservatives rather than a real opinion.

[Harry Lime]

The election reform bill being passed pushes the 2025 election date by one week, so that 52 liberal MPs will qualify for the full Golden parachute pension of 6 years service, even if they lose their riding. . Cool. Cool.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Wrong. I watch and listen to CBC because I legitimately enjoy their programming. I also think their news reporting and journalism is top notch compared to the competition, and I watch the National daily. They're also a great platform for independent artists in this country, particularly CBC radio/podcasts, etc...

The fact that it annoys people on the right so much is nothing more than a humorous added bonus. Seems to me that the CBC is just another thing that conservatives like to put on their list of things that make them angry...which is everything these days.

Yeah but AM/FM radio is also a dying medium as well. I don't dislike CBC and I'm not far right. I just don't see it's purpose outside of serving elderly Canadians that still listen to radio and watch CBC on TV. The ratings don't lie. It's on a steep decline as-is. We can argue all day here but it's not going to go anywhere because most of you are hardliners without compromise. Every old dog has its day and that day will come for CBC that I'm fairly confident about.

[Harry Lime]

Two things that will absolutely happen if the CBC is lost.

Polarization of the news. The prairies will get fed right wing news, Ontario and bc will get left wing, and Quebec will get separation news. No group will know or understand what the other group is being fed. It would basically make Facebook the canadian news model.

It would ignore non-urban centres. Anything not Vancouver, calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal can go to hell. There's no money in it.

I think of the cbc in the same breath as the railroad. It's a tie.

[calgarygeologist]

It is interesting that despite the huge DEI push in Canada, across corporations, and all the discussion within the CBC Annual Report the Board of Directors at CBC is under 20% minorities and the Executive team looks to be mostly white as well.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

Look at the regionalism number in defunding the CBC compared to 2015. Has the CBC gotten worse than 2015 tar sands fever at representing Alberta? Or is something else driving opinions.

I’ve already suggested an explanation: The CBC’s editorial slant has changed over the last decade. That’s what I’ve seen with my eyes and ears. And lots of other people have too. I understand that’s subjective. But it’s not an entirely wild and baseless explanation.

Originally Posted by GGG

This doesn’t answer your question of metrics but I think being equally liked by the political spectrum is a poor metric since hating the CBC as become a party brand. You yourself believe that the metric you propose is flawed as you believe that liking the CBC is about sticking it to the conservatives rather than a real opinion.

The Conservatives in the UK like to slam the BBC, same as the Conservatives in Canada. The difference is that it doesn’t work in the UK - conservative-leaning citizens still trust the BBC.

As I said upthread, it’s possible the Cons in Canada are just way more effective at turning their supporters against the public broadcaster than their counterparts in the UK. I don’t know why that would be, but it’s possible.

I’m not claiming the Conservatives aren’t trying to poison the well against the CBC. I’m suggesting that it’s easier for them to do that if the CBC’s editorial stance is out of step with growing numbers of Canadians.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is interesting that despite the huge DEI push in Canada, across corporations, and all the discussion within the CBC Annual Report the Board of Directors at CBC is under 20% minorities and the Executive team looks to be mostly white as well.

And the general workforce breakdown at CBC/Radio-Canada in 2020 was:

Visible Minorities - 14.6%
Indigenous Peoples - 2.2%
Persons with Disabilities - 3.3%
Women - 48.5%
LGBTQ2+ - 7.8%

Does this strike you as significantly different? In fact 2023 might have even higher numbers than this, especially year-over-year.

Also, do you understand what having a DEI policy means?

Rather than hiring people based on quotas or percentages for diversity and inclusion, it means the applicant pool for new jobs is opened up further to be more accessible to those who previously may not be considered. It doesn't mean firing others to meet those quotas.

In other words, it doesn't mean hiring more "minorities", it means having more competition in job applications.

Do you happen to know the length/tenure of those Caucasian people at the top? My guess is they've been there for a considerable amount of time as they worked their way up the ladder, and possibly before and during DEI was implemented.

[Cappy]

DEI isn't affirmative action.

(ozy got it).

It's almost like DEI isnt as scary as people are lead to believe...

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

And the general workforce breakdown at CBC/Radio-Canada in 2020 was:

Visible Minorities - 14.6%
Indigenous Peoples - 2.2%
Persons with Disabilities - 3.3%
Women - 48.5%
LGBTQ2+ - 7.8%

Does this strike you as significantly different? In fact 2023 might have even higher numbers than this, especially year-over-year.

Also, do you understand what having a DEI policy means?

Rather than hiring people based on quotas or percentages for diversity and inclusion, it means the applicant pool for new jobs is opened up further to be more accessible to those who previously may not be considered. It doesn't mean firing others to meet those quotas.

In other words, it doesn't mean hiring more "minorities", it means having more competition in job applications.

Do you happen to know the length/tenure of those Caucasian people at the top? My guess is they've been there for a considerable amount of time as they worked their way up the ladder, and possibly before and during DEI was implemented.

Government of Canada:

The membership of the Board should include representation of the geographical regions of Canada and maintain a balance of gender, cultural and linguistic representation to ensure that the Board represents the diversity of Canada’s population and its regions.

https://federal-organizations.canada...ID=CBC&lang=en

Racialized population in Canada is around 27% and the CBC board is 18%. Also, the prairie provinces represent about 17% of the population of Canada and make up 9% of the board.

I think the CBC is falling short of their idealized board makeup as posted by the government.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

TV viewership is declining across the board. But CBC’s share of that declining viewership is shrinking even vaster.



The CBC TV news ratings are 50 per cent lower than CTV’s ratings.

That doesn't really put it in context compared to the competition. I took a quick look to see if I could find any raw data, but the top results were all editorials from competitors telling me how big of a problem the CBC audience decline is.

I don't care enough to dig through a dozen articles or vet every [probably conservative] "institute" that has a pdf that may but probably will not contain the data I'm looking for in an honest context, but maybe I'll try again later. My point is that it is clearly a circular narrative at this point and it shouldn't actually be hard to demonstrate that it's actually a unique problem. Everyone believes it to be true so it must be true.

I don't watch TV anymore, but when I did I can agree that CBC supper time news was basically unwatchable based on camera quality alone. So that number isn't shocking...I'm not sure anyone would advocate for spending huge money to compete with CTV's set up, but I'm also not sure how much benefit there is to scrapping it entirely.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Government of Canada:

https://federal-organizations.canada...ID=CBC&lang=en

Racialized population in Canada is around 27% and the CBC board is 18%. Also, the prairie provinces represent about 17% of the population of Canada and make up 9% of the board.

I think the CBC is falling short of their idealized board makeup as posted by the government.

I'm sure you'd be first in line to applaud if they hit that "target" precisely.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’ve already suggested an explanation: The CBC’s editorial slant has changed over the last decade. That’s what I’ve seen with my eyes and ears. And lots of other people have too. I understand that’s subjective. But it’s not an entirely wild and baseless explanation.




The Conservatives in the UK like to slam the BBC, same as the Conservatives in Canada. The difference is that it doesn’t work in the UK - conservative-leaning citizens still trust the BBC.

As I said upthread, it’s possible the Cons in Canada are just way more effective at turning their supporters against the public broadcaster than their counterparts in the UK. I don’t know why that would be, but it’s possible.

I’m not claiming the Conservatives aren’t trying to poison the well against the CBC. I’m suggesting that it’s easier for them to do that if the CBC’s editorial stance is out of step with growing numbers of Canadians.

Do you have any evidence that in the last 10 years the CBC has become more left or more woke? What’s clear in 2015 is Harper started the very vocal defund movement. Can you point to a similar datapoint in wokeness?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Do you have any evidence that in the last 10 years the CBC has become more left or more woke? What’s clear in 2015 is Harper started the very vocal defund movement. Can you point to a similar datapoint in wokeness?

When did woke become a real thing?

[PepsiFree]

Considering the popularity of parties like the UCP and CPC, how far should the CBC lean into right wing populism and new right identity politics to appease those who it suddenly finds itself “out of step” with?