Terminated employee beheads former coworker in Oklahoma

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Way to fall for the forced religious spin.




Oh look.

This admin has done everything they can to cast muslims in the best light.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by PIMking

This admin has done everything they can to cast muslims in the best light.

Maybe the rumor about Obama is true

[Displaced Flames fan]

Some hilarious comments in this thread.

For the record, the guy who shot the murderer is an off duty reserve sheriff so the sarcasm surrounding the bolstering of pro-gun arguments is irrelevant. Pure luck that this guy just happened to work there too.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by PIMking

This admin has done everything they can to cast muslims in the best light.

And they shouldn't?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

And they shouldn't?

Don't you realize that in PIMking's world every violent crime committed by a Muslim is a religious act while every violent crime committed by a non-Muslim is nothing more than a crime.

Haters gotta hate and those who demonize an entire group of people for the acts of a statistically insignificant minority are the very definition of Haters.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Pretty tasteless.

Just a joke, nothing to lose your head over

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

Yet more disgusting behavior from the religion of peace

Originally Posted by T@T

Extremely remote possibilty, history says your wrong.

Religion is no good...and stupid!

Originally Posted by polak

Religion is stupid.

My work here is done.

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

They really don't do themselves any favors, do they?

Good thing secular ideologies are completely innocent & bloodless.

Regards,
Nationalism, colonialism, imperialism, social Darwinism, eugenics, etc., etc., etc.

[Textcritic]

There is lots of inflammatory stuff in this thread.

Originally Posted by wretched34

Agreed, Religion does not make people crazy.
But combining crazy people, with religion, can be dangerous.
Religion gives them a reason and self justification to take drastic measures.
It's no coincidence that this newly found muslim decided to behead people in protest. That is what the religion preaches, so, he felt he was within his religious right, or duty, to do just that. Maybe if he hadn't been Muslim, and was Catholic, he'd have crucified his victim(s) instead...

You are wrong here on several counts. In the first place, we don't yet know what the connection is between the perpetrator's religious beliefs and his condemnable actions. It may very well be a coincidence, and I would urge everyone to exercise some restraint in where they choose to direct the blame for this specific incident.

Second, you have made a statement about "what the religion (in this case, Islam) preaches," that I suspect originates from a straw man of Islam that you have constructed from your impressions of what the religion is about from watching the news and from horribly prejudicial stereotypes that are disseminated in popular western culture. If I am wrong, then please feel free to correct me. If I am right, then I further recommend that you abstain from making declarations about the intricacies of Islamic doctrine and theology.

Third, why do you believe that the assailant was performing "within his religious right"? Please enlighten us about the right that he was invoking in this instance to legitimise this heinous act.

Fourth, you have also impugned Catholicism by suggesting that an appropriate Catholic response in this same incident would have been for him "to crucif[y] his victim(s) instead." What an outrageous assertion. What religious motivation would a Catholic have to murder his co-workers, and furthermore, why would it be sensible for a Catholic to crucify anyone?

I understand that people's feelings about religion are strong. And I understand that many people who have been harmed either directly or indirectly by their own religious experiences have absolutely valid reasons to be highly critical about what they perceive to be "religion." But these types of incredulous misrepresentations and fallacious projections about what religion is or is not, or how culpable it is or is not don't do anyone any good, and only end up further alienating a whole multitude of deeply sincere and commendable people who qualify as religious.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Every religion has an element of evangelism or "spreading the word".

Not so. There is a huge swath of religions that are basically unconcerned about any form of proselytisation. Judaism is probably the most familiar western religion where this is the case. As far as they are concerned, whether you are Jewish or not is not in any way their problem or responsibility.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would say that Islam and Christianity both have it as fairly key tenants.

Christianity is certainly unique in this regard, and I don't know enough about Islam to comment. But from what I do know, it is not "evangelistic" in the same sense. When was the last time you were on the receiving end of Islamic conversion propaganda, or opened your door to a Muslim evangelist?

[Looch City]

For every murder:

Question 1: was he Muslim?
If yes: that's why.
If no: mental issues.


Think you're reading CNN/Fox news comments with some of these posters...

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There is lots of inflammatory stuff in this thread.


You are wrong here on several counts.
In the first place, we don't yet know what the connection is between the perpetrator's religious beliefs and his condemnable actions.

It is this sort of statement that is the cause of much of the radical actions we see all over the world. "Because I don't know that you are right, you are obviously wrong" is all an unstable person needs to justify their actions.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It may very well be a coincidence, and I would urge everyone to exercise some restraint in where they choose to direct the blame for this specific incident.

Yes, it may very well be a coincidence, and at no time did I say the accused's actions were because of his religion, because I don't for a second believe he committed these heinous crimes simply because he is muslim. My point was that religion (any religion) can be a powerful weapon in the wrong hands. All religions have radical followers, who can take scripture out of context in order to empower themselves to feel they are within their moral and religious rights to commit a crime. As was also pointed out, it is not only religion that has this effect.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Second, you have made a statement about "what the religion (in this case, Islam) preaches," that I suspect originates from a straw man of Islam that you have constructed from your impressions of what the religion is about from watching the news and from horribly prejudicial stereotypes that are disseminated in popular western culture. If I am wrong, then please feel free to correct me. If I am right, then I further recommend that you abstain from making declarations about the intricacies of Islamic doctrine and theology.

Again, I do not blame Islam, or the muslim faith for the actions. I am familiar with the religion, and don't for a second believe it is what the media portrays it to be. Like most religions, it is built around faith and peace. It is the radical side, like all religions, that feel there is only one truth, and if you are a disbeliever you are wrong, and so will be punished. In the case of the Quran, Verse 8:12: Believers will be strengthened to cast terror into the hearts of disbelievers, by striking upon the necks, and every fingertip. It is scripture like this that radicals of all faiths feed off of, and cast a dark shadow over the vast majority of peaceful followers. However, you must admit, in recent years, it is the radical muslims that have taken center stage, and many of their actions have not helped the cause.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Third, why do you believe that the assailant was performing "within his religious right"? Please enlighten us about the right that he was invoking in this instance to legitimise this heinous act.

I don't believe he was performing "within his religious right" I believe he is incredibly unstable, and justifying his own actions within himself based on his religious belief. So to himself, he felt he was within his moral and religious right, to do what he did.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Fourth, you have also impugned Catholicism by suggesting that an appropriate Catholic response in this same incident would have been for him "to crucif[y] his victim(s) instead." What an outrageous assertion. What religious motivation would a Catholic have to murder his co-workers, and furthermore, why would it be sensible for a Catholic to crucify anyone?

I was simply stating, again, that any religion can be used as justification to commit a heinous act in the mind of an unstable individual. It gives them the ability to feel as though they are in the right, if they are following their god's order. Crucifixion was merely a lewd comparison. I don't believe religion is the motivation for the actions, merely a justification of the actions, in their own mind.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I understand that people's feelings about religion are strong. And I understand that many people who have been harmed either directly or indirectly by their own religious experiences have absolutely valid reasons to be highly critical about what they perceive to be "religion." But these types of incredulous misrepresentations and fallacious projections about what religion is or is not, or how culpable it is or is not don't do anyone any good, and only end up further alienating a whole multitude of deeply sincere and commendable people who qualify as religious.

I really think you misunderstood my initial comments, at no time did I mean to blame a religion for the crime. Nor did I mean to misrepresent the muslim faith. However, the radicals of all religions can be blamed for doing so. They are the black mark on their beliefs. I have no issue with religion as a whole, and accept all peaceful followers, as friends, family, co-workers, whomever.

[Textcritic]

A fair response, for the most part, but I would like to point out a couple of things.

Originally Posted by wretched34

...Yes, it may very well be a coincidence, and at no time did I say the accused's actions were because of his religion, because I don't for a second believe he committed these heinous crimes simply because he is muslim.

You have clearly assigned at least some of the responsibility for his crime on his religious convictions when you said:

Originally Posted by wretched34

...It's no coincidence that this newly found muslim decided to behead people in protest.

Perhaps you misunderstand me. While it remains possible, it is in no way certain that his conversion to Islam has anything to do with his actions. It is best to withhold making these sorts of generalisations—which may be true—until we know the facts.

Originally Posted by wretched34

I was simply stating, again, that any religion can be used as justification to commit a heinous act in the mind of an unstable individual. It gives them the ability to feel as though they are in the right, if they are following their god's order. Crucifixion was merely a lewd comparison. I don't believe religion is the motivation for the actions, merely a justification of the actions, in their own mind.

It was an extremely poor one, since it strains credulity to imagine even in the most twisted interpretation of Catholic doctrine how one arrives at crucifying the infidels.

Originally Posted by wretched34

...the radicals of all religions can be blamed for doing so. They are the black mark on their beliefs. I have no issue with religion as a whole, and accept all peaceful followers, as friends, family, co-workers, whomever.

I totally concur and will join you in condemning the assailant on this basis if there is actually an established link between his behaviour and his religion. So far, there is no link. The point here is to restrain ourselves from drawing these sorts of conclusions prematurely.

[afc wimbledon]

Traditionally Catholics burnt apostates at the stake. By the thousands at times.

[Erick Estrada]

You have to admit the whole beheading is kind of a Muslim thing. If he was just another crazy Yankee he would have walked in and shot everyone up.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You have to admit the whole beheading is kind of a Muslim thing. If he was just another crazy Yankee he would have walked in and shot everyone up.

Henry the eighth begs to disagree

[burn_this_city]

So do the French.

[nik-]

At least Henry the 8th and France can refer to their use of it in the past tense.

[Rathji]

How many non-terrorist Muslim beheadings have you heard of recently? or would it be more correct to say that this is a terrorist tool, rather than a Muslim tool?

[Doodlebug]

Originally Posted by Rathji

How many non-terrorist Muslim beheadings have you heard of recently? or would it be more correct to say that this is a terrorist tool, rather than a Muslim tool?

Well according to the Washington Post, Saudi Arabia beheaded 8 people last month. Only country that does this apparently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...le-last-month/

[Arya Stark]

I love how we North Americans know how to kill people humanely. Dropping bombs on innocent people and killing 150,000 innocent civilians was so humane. A few beheadings and a billion people are painted with the same brush.