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Old 04-18-2017, 10:55 AM   #561
ernie
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huge drop today for United Airlines stock. Down 3.65%. Not sure if it will rally or not.

That translates to a 1.082 Billion Dollar drop of their market cap from before the incident.

Who'd have thought that investigations from the Department of Transport in both Canada and the US would be bad for business?

I guess the whole market must not understand the airline business.

Update: From when I started typing this post to now, it's down 3.76%. Based on my math each 1% drop is about a $230 million dollar drop. So a 0.1 drop is a 23 million dollar hit.
well, you know, dragging one passenger off so 100 can fly out the next morning is simple airline math.

oops.

So it seems breaking humans costs ~6 times as much as breaking a guitar. United better hope there isn't a dead puppy in a cargo hold somewhere....

Last edited by ernie; 04-18-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:05 PM   #562
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So it seems breaking humans costs ~6 times as much as breaking a guitar. United better hope there isn't a dead puppy in a cargo hold somewhere....
After the guitar incident, stock only briefly dropped and actually increased beyond the "starting point".
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:10 PM   #563
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After the guitar incident, stock only briefly dropped and actually increased beyond the "starting point".
Yes well aware. That's what stocks and the stock market typically do. But such drops have very real implications for real people and companies. Even if the drop is temporary as they often are.

And it's worth remembering that this is the airline that in very recent past messed up a merger, had a scandal forcing a CEO and two other senior executives to resign, and have had a seemingly revolving door of CEOs. Further bad press doesn't help them as they've been trying to right the ship. This is a stock that has basically doubled in price since the hardships a few years ago. Sinking back down to those levels again would be huge (not saying they will).

Last edited by ernie; 04-18-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #564
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Yes well aware. That's what stocks and the stock market typically do. But such drops have very real implications for real people and companies. Even if the drop is temporary as they often are.
My point was that 2009 was obviously a more volatile time for airlines; many were doubting whether the initial drop could even be attributed to the guitar song (which is quite catchy by the way, check it out if you haven't heard it)
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:33 PM   #565
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My point was that 2009 was obviously a more volatile time for airlines; many were doubting whether the initial drop could even be attributed to the guitar song (which is quite catchy by the way, check it out if you haven't heard it)
Gotcha. I don't really think the song did much of anything to the stock price that was already sinking for the reason you mentioned. I was just mentioning it as it's pointed out as a reason they lost $280 mil in stock value.

This time it might have an actual effect though long term trends tended to have the stock overvalued and looking to drop to $60 per share or so already. This may hasten that which isn't a good thing as a rapid decline can be harder to stop.

What saves them is the way airports are always a hub for one of the 4 major carriers. You want to fly out of Dallas your best bet is American. St. Paul you take Delta etc. Choices are limited without going to different airports or limiting options.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:32 PM   #566
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The other thing that limits the negative affect is that travelers already have a terrible perception of airlines and at the consumer level where sentiment might play a factor shop on price.

Business again will be convenience, comfort, price in some order then perception of the airline.

So from a actually usage standpoint they should be relatively unaffected. Though that only has a moderate impact on stock price where perception is as important as the underlying analytics.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #567
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I think the trigger for the stock today is that some reports came out (including the Wall Street Journal) that corporate clients of United are demanding their policies be reviewed.

Stock finished with a 4.27% drop today alone. From where it started prior to the incident, that is a 1.22 Billion Dollar drop in market cap.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:05 PM   #568
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'they (did not) overbooked'? What's with these egregious parenthetical-based errors in thread titles, CP?
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:53 PM   #569
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'they (did not) overbooked'? What's with these egregious parenthetical-based errors in thread titles, CP?
Hush now. Or else....

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Old 04-26-2017, 12:20 PM   #570
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Now they're murdering rabbits.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/0...es-flight.html
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:26 PM   #571
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That looks like a belligerent animal.
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:28 PM   #572
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Do people really not know how terrible commercial holds are for animals? I'm too lazy to look, but I imagine the death rate due to various factors has got to be pretty high (and we're talking fractions of percents here).
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:59 PM   #573
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They flew the Rabbit to O'Hare?

I'll see myself out...
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:13 PM   #574
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Do people really not know how terrible commercial holds are for animals? I'm too lazy to look, but I imagine the death rate due to various factors has got to be pretty high (and we're talking fractions of percents here).
I think it's the stress that gets to them. A couple times I've seen dogs come in with broken teeth and blood in the kennel because they're trying to bite their way out. Seemed like cats handled it better, on average.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:31 PM   #575
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Do people really not know how terrible commercial holds are for animals? I'm too lazy to look, but I imagine the death rate due to various factors has got to be pretty high (and we're talking fractions of percents here).
I work with a rescue that flies dogs about once a month. We've never had any issues. Although, I am extremely hesitant to fly my own dogs and would only do it as a last resort.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:58 PM   #576
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New policies at United:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/27/news...411/index.html
Quote:
  1. United won't use law enforcement unless there's a safety or security issue -- it won't call the cops simply to enforce its own policies.
  2. Boarded passengers won't be asked to give up their seats involuntarily unless there's a safety or security issue.
  3. United is increasing compensation to $10,000 for voluntarily giving up your seat.
  4. A "customer solutions team" is being created to assist gate agents to get fliers to their destinations. The team will also help crews find alternatives to displacing passengers.
  5. Traveling crew members must be booked at least 60 minutes before departure.
  6. United will add new annual training for its agents "that will equip them to handle the most difficult of situations." This begins in August.
  7. United will ask passengers during automated check-in or on its app if they're interested in giving up their seat in exchange for compensation.
  8. It is cutting back overbooking for last-of-the-day flights, like flight 3411 -- or flights that historically had few passengers voluntarily give up seats.
  9. Using a new app, flight attendants and gate agents can proactively dole out miles or other compensation "when a disservice occurs."
  10. The airline is cutting the red tape for lost bags. If a bag goes permanently missing, the airline is adopting a "no-questions-asked" policy. United will pay $1,500 for the bag and its contents.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:23 AM   #577
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$10,000? Yes please.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:12 AM   #578
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Stingl: Urgent trip to restroom gets man kicked off Delta flight

So that makes all three major American legacy carries that have screwed up. Gee, it's almost like you guys should all stay home.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:01 AM   #579
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I was sort of joking when I posted they better hope they don't kill a dog...

I was reading an article last night that said something like 130 pets have died on flights in the past three years across all airlines (I assume US or North American ones). A third of those have been United. No idea what the rate is.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:51 AM   #580
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There. That wasn't so hard. Problem solved. The next post after was someone who is ready and happy to be kicked off a flight.

I bet this also means they simply sell less seats beyond their capacity since buying the seats back will cost more now.
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