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Old 12-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #41
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I liked:


-A new crew to get behind that worked well together, even if they didn't have much development. Likeable characters you're rooting for (or the lack of them) is the backbone of what made Star Wars great, and why the prequels flopped the way they did.
-That they all died. It was the only way this story could be told. Anything else would have been unacceptable.
-Vader was used just the right amount. Would have been really easy for them to mess that up. Hell they even gave us something to stop the 'Kylo is so powerful he stopped a laser blast in mid-air, Vader didn't do anything that cool'
-Similarly, only one light sabre and its use was less than a minute of screen time.
-Glimpse at the Imperial power structure, a few more egos and people with ambition that such a system would be ripe with. Also the Rebel politics since it would also have a pretty tumultuous set-up as well.
-The cheesy lines from the trailers weren't there (particularly "I rebel.")
-No crawl. Leave that for the saga, a good choice.
-The convenience of the weakness in ANH is explained, is plausible, and done well.



I didn't like

-We didn't really get to learn who Jyn was. Nothing is built of her 'world'. This is where TFA blew this out of the park. The 5 minutes of 'a day in the life of Rey' taught us a lot. We even see this better in the Marvel universe and other stories. Goes from a cell to a transport and that's about it. Sure she's a prisoner, but some glimpse at how hopeless she may be could have used just a minute or two more of story building IMO.
-Similarly I would have liked to see more about Cassian and his 'day'. Talk to a couple more people, how he gets recruits and informants, then go talk to the guy who sets off the mission. Basically a bit more about how the Rebellion worked at his level
-That Leia's ship was attached to the cruiser. I it was the end of a cool scene, but I think it could have happened anyway if the race was to just transmit the plans to her ship. How could she claim it is a diplomatic vessel when it's effectively the lifeboat for the Rebel flagship? Stupid.
-The music. I get they don't want to use the saga score when they can, but this seemed a lot like the bland Marvel Universe scores that are just so forgettable. Star Wars music shouldn't be forgettable.

I absolutely hated

-R2 and 3PO on Yavin 4. What is this. Don't try to make this some kind of Stan Lee thing that they need to be shoehorned into every Star Wars movie. What the hell were they doing there?


All in all it's like a Marvel movie. Which is basically what I expected. Weak start (after the first scene anyway), but got it back together for the end. A good, safe, money making property for the Star Wars universe. But doesn't have the same allure as the saga does for me.

The trailer for Dunkirk was absolutely amazing.

It definitely doesn't need to be seen in 3D (which makes sense because TFA didn't either). Hate that this is a thing for these movies, but money is money I suppose.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:48 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
I liked:


-A new crew to get behind that worked well together, even if they didn't have much development. Likeable characters you're rooting for (or the lack of them) is the backbone of what made Star Wars great, and why the prequels flopped the way they did.


I didn't like

-We didn't really get to learn who Jyn was. Nothing is built of her 'world'. This is where TFA blew this out of the park. The 5 minutes of 'a day in the life of Rey' taught us a lot. We even see this better in the Marvel universe and other stories. Goes from a cell to a transport and that's about it. Sure she's a prisoner, but some glimpse at how hopeless she may be could have used just a minute or two more of story building IMO.
-Similarly I would have liked to see more about Cassian and his 'day'. Talk to a couple more people, how he gets recruits and informants, then go talk to the guy who sets off the mission. Basically a bit more about how the Rebellion worked at his level
-The music. I get they don't want to use the saga score when they can, but this seemed a lot like the bland Marvel Universe scores that are just so forgettable. Star Wars music shouldn't be forgettable.
As I mentioned in the previous post, I don't think the characters were supposed to have the same development and depth as those in the main saga. I think this was meant to be a story about the faceless, forgotten soldiers that make a sacrifice for something bigger than themselves, like in actual war. And think of how sad it would be if the audience fell in love with Jyn's character as much as people seemingly did with Rey's, and then that ending..

Also, I thought the score was absolutely fantastic. It had a similar aura as the OT, while setting itself apart. Noticed the score more than in TFA. It was also (apparently) all put together in 6 weeks. Impressive.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:50 PM   #43
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-R2 and 3PO on Yavin 4. What is this. Don't try to make this some kind of Stan Lee thing that they need to be shoehorned into every Star Wars movie. What the hell were they doing there?
Why are people upset about this? That was like the most unobtrusive cameo ever. As for what they're doing there, easy enough explanation... I mean, first, they had to get onto Leia's ship somehow. But more than that, weren't they with Padme at the end of ep3? No particular reason Bail Organa couldn't have taken them back to Alderaan with him.
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It definitely doesn't need to be seen in 3D (which makes sense because TFA didn't either). Hate that this is a thing for these movies, but money is money I suppose.
I didn't really notice it very often, which imo is good for 3D, but given how many people are complaining about Peter CGIushing and that it didn't bug me at all I'm thinking that may have been the key selling point.
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:30 PM   #44
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I just saw a matinee of it. I really liked it. Pretty solid story, and I am glad that everyone died at the end, like I was expecting.

This should do some interesting things to 'canon', though...since now the Bothans have nothing to whine about and hold over everyone else's heads.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:35 PM   #45
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I really enjoyed it. A very refreshing addition to the franchise that added a bit more beef to the Star Wars universe. Invoked just enough material from the main series without overstepping its bounds or becoming ridiculous. Plot-wise, I actually far preferred this to the outlandish Starkiller Base narrative.

Some of the action sequences in this movie were phenomenal. The "ship cam" footage from the X-Wings battling in space just above a tropical planet was total eye candy.

Also, I loved Mendelsohn as the Imperial flunky du jour. He puts Hux to shame if you ask me.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:42 PM   #46
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I thought it was solid. I liked how murky it seemed compared to the other movies, where there were much more clear "good guys" and "bad guys". Just the flashes of dissension in the Rebellion, and also between Tarkin and the director guy, were good touches.

Amazing action in the third act. Just about everything that could have been possibly thrown in was thrown in, from the settings to the ground battle to the infiltration of the Empire facility to the aerial battles both in the atmosphere and space. Really gorgeous and thrilling. And with a real feeling of hopelessness for the heroes, since we had a pretty good idea of how this had to end to "set up" the original movie. I'm sure I had a stupid grin plastered on my face for the least 20-30 minutes.

The CGI appearances didn't bother me at all.
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:54 PM   #47
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since now the Bothans have nothing to whine about and hold over everyone else's heads.
That was the second Death Star in Jedi...
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Old 12-16-2016, 05:58 PM   #48
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I'm shocked to read the responses here.

I thought it was a total turd.

Boring as F for the first hour where hey jump from character to character and place to place with no development, and the last hour a huge meaningless battle lacking tension, anticipation or surprise.

The director was the same as Godzilla, which I hated, so maybe it just wasn't made for me. I loved Force Awakens, but the callbacks in this one seemed forced (Vader was appalling, and R2 C3PO cameo simply annoying), and the deaths of all characters at the end was a relief more than anything else.

Did like the Imperial Droid. Only real positive for the film.
Pretty much exactly this.

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but this film wasn't that good overall. Really bad first half and they tried to make up for it in the 2nd half. They got close with the increase in action and some well done scenes, but I found a lot of it to be pointless with little drama or intrigue attached to the action. I really thought it was clunky and poorly edited for a lot of the film. Nothing flowed most of the time.

Oh, and the dark humor from the droid was a good idea, but poorly executed. I think I laughed once.

Perhaps with a re-watching I would find it more entertaining, but overall, it was pretty meh.

And someone needs to explain to me why they created a character like Sol Guerrera (like Che Guevara??? Really?) with all this intrigue and back story, and cool mechanization, only to kill him off right away?

Terrible decision as far as I'm concerned. This is night and day compared to the J.J. Abrams excellently executed episode 7.

I give it about a 6.5/10.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:02 PM   #49
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I really enjoyed it. A very refreshing addition to the franchise that added a bit more beef to the Star Wars universe. Invoked just enough material from the main series without overstepping its bounds or becoming ridiculous. Plot-wise, I actually far preferred this to the outlandish Starkiller Base narrative.

Some of the action sequences in this movie were phenomenal. The "ship cam" footage from the X-Wings battling in space just above a tropical planet was total eye candy.

Also, I loved Mendelsohn as the Imperial flunky du jour. He puts Hux to shame if you ask me.
Omg yeah, Battle for Scarif >>>>> Starkiller Base

The stakes, the visuals, and that underlying sense of 'hopelessness' as was mentioned. Starkiller was much more hokey and while attempting to come off as epic, it came off more hollow and overblown. Like the mission briefing dialogue.. "it's like the death star" - "no. that's the death star. This is Starkiller Base." - "So it's bigger. So what, anything can be blown up." - "He's right." - "Oh there's some oscillators, if we just take those out the whole thing should blow." - "Okay cool, let's go." Was so lame, even borrowing from the wacky scrutinized parts of ANH, whereas R1 instead completely redeemed that with a more complex narrative. SK was supposed to be a parallel to the Yavin 4 battle but again the tension and stakes were way higher in that battle with the trench run sequence. Starkiller had none of that. Just indestructible Poe flying through and blowing everything up all easy peasy.

And the quarrels between Krellic and Tarkin >>> Hux and Kylo Ren.

Mainly cause the Empire is far cooler, and the older boys are way more intimidating as power figures, as opposed to the young guns in Ep.VII who came off as petty kids fighting in a sandbox.

Rather large factors to why I liked R1 more.

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Old 12-16-2016, 06:06 PM   #50
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I didn't like

-That Leia's ship was attached to the cruiser. I it was the end of a cool scene, but I think it could have happened anyway if the race was to just transmit the plans to her ship. How could she claim it is a diplomatic vessel when it's effectively the lifeboat for the Rebel flagship? Stupid.
-The music. I get they don't want to use the saga score when they can, but this seemed a lot like the bland Marvel Universe scores that are just so forgettable. Star Wars music shouldn't be forgettable.
Yes, I commented on both of these during the movie, especially the Leia thing. Plausible deniability and all that. They tried too hard to make the direct connection to episode 4.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:46 PM   #51
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I really thought it was clunky and poorly edited for a lot of the film.
Can you give some examples of bad editing?
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:48 PM   #52
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Pretty much exactly this.

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but this film wasn't that good overall. Really bad first half and they tried to make up for it in the 2nd half. They got close with the increase in action and some well done scenes, but I found a lot of it to be pointless with little drama or intrigue attached to the action. I really thought it was clunky and poorly edited for a lot of the film. Nothing flowed most of the time.

Oh, and the dark humor from the droid was a good idea, but poorly executed. I think I laughed once.

Perhaps with a re-watching I would find it more entertaining, but overall, it was pretty meh.

And someone needs to explain to me why they created a character like Sol Guerrera (like Che Guevara??? Really?) with all this intrigue and back story, and cool mechanization, only to kill him off right away?

Terrible decision as far as I'm concerned. This is night and day compared to the J.J. Abrams excellently executed episode 7.

I give it about a 6.5/10.
I think that Saw was more of a wink towards continuity in the OT. He had a major character arc in the Clone Wars series as he was a resistance fighter who watched his sister get killed by separatists.

It was actually one of the better arc's in a series full of them.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:16 PM   #53
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Can you give some examples of bad editing?
Sure, mostly stuff that had no bearing on anything, yet was left in the film. The scene with that slimy monster Guerrera had to figure out what people were hiding (also mentioning that it drives you mad), yet the pilot wasn't hiding anything and after a brief allusion to him having lost his mind, he seems fine about a minute later.

All of that should have been on the cutting room floor.

What should have been in his place was any sort of brief montage of Jyn battling alongside Sol so you could understand what he'd been through, as well as her experience level.

Those are broad stroke editing decisions, but there were also problems with pacing and cutting too much of a scene that could flesh things out a little more.

I have a feeling it was a director choice, but it was still poorly crafted in the first half of the film.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:17 PM   #54
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I really enjoyed it, but I agree with the sentiment that the biggest emotional response about a character dying was K-2SO. I think they could have cut out Sol Guerrera entirely and used that time to develop Jyn more.. I mean it feels like she's being dragged into something she doesn't care abouohhey she's doing a speech now and now she flew off to die for the cause. For all the time they spent early on it didn't feel like I knew Jyn or cared one way or the other about why anyone was doing anything. Same with the rebellion, I know there's lots of other material to establish that Empire = bad, but you still have to show not tell or assume it's been told.

Agree with the music isn't nearly as good as I would have hoped.

Tarkin was so bad, I almost wish they would have gone the more cheesy route of just having his face in profile or talking from behind. Or just got someone different that looked similar and gave him distinctive cheek bones, I mean if Batman can be played by different actors... And Tarkin was great compared to Leia at the end, wow that was nightmare inducing.

But still overall was a good movie and I enjoyed it more than many I've seen this year. It's a good experiment and I hope they do more.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:26 PM   #55
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I'm pretty sure they didn't want to develop the characters too much for fear of leaving many a young viewer crying on the way out !

I enjoyed this way more then 7, but the first 30 mins with planet hoping was weird ! But the last 1.5 hrs of amazing more then made up for it
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:44 PM   #56
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I think they could have cut out Sol Guerrera entirely and used that time to develop Jyn more.. I mean it feels like she's being dragged into something she doesn't care abouohhey she's doing a speech now and now she flew off to die for the cause.
I think she cared after she saw/realized how much her dad cared about the cause. I think that was more than enough reason to sway her. And the sacrifice he made to allow the rebels to have a chance (with her help).

But yes, could've used more Jyn growing up scenes put in there just to understand her as a character more. Hard to buy her and Saw's relationship when we didn't get any of all their supposed time together on screen.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:48 PM   #57
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Yes, I commented on both of these during the movie, especially the Leia thing. Plausible deniability and all that. They tried too hard to make the direct connection to episode 4.
Tried too hard? I dunno. It felt like a pretty natural and almost seamless connection to me. Satisfying, IMO.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:39 PM   #58
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Yeah I thought the transition in to 4 was pretty well executed.

Also, I guess I may have to watch it again, but I wasn't nearly as bothered as some by the CGI characters. I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't even realize that Tarkin was a cartoon at first. I thought that he and Leia were pulled off incredibly well considering how badly that could've been fouled up. Ah well.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:41 PM   #59
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I liked it. Loved the dark tone and the realism, I mean as real as a Star Wars movie can be. Donnie Yen was awesome, and even though I knew his character was going to die, I didn't know so too was everyone else. I especially liked how they explained the Death Star's weakness as a specifically designed flaw. I didn't leave the theater wanting to watch it again, like I did for TFA. Which is strange because I feel it's a stronger movie. The lack of character development, as others have mentioned, probably plays a part in that.

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Old 12-16-2016, 10:00 PM   #60
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I'm shocked to read the responses here.

I thought it was a total turd.
Didn't hate it as much as you but I have zero desire to ever see the film again.
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