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Old 07-08-2016, 10:55 AM   #21
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That would put it in line with the 31st ranked NHL goalie salary

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/average/goaltender/
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:01 AM   #22
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and our salary cap being very similar to the NHL's... it makes sense. A bubble starter (31st) should be in the 3-3.5 range. Where as the 60th (bubble NHLer) could be in the 750k-1m range.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:07 AM   #23
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Ratings looks good. Very. Very. Good.

The Oilers have benefited greatly from the re-rates. I hope to get the RFA re-signings done shortly.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:20 AM   #24
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and our salary cap being very similar to the NHL's... it makes sense. A bubble starter (31st) should be in the 3-3.5 range. Where as the 60th (bubble NHLer) could be in the 750k-1m range.
Goalies are arguably even more important in the CPHL. As important as a top forward
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:21 AM   #25
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Goalies are arguably even more important in the CPHL. As important as a top forward
I think some would argue that. However, that is not the main point I am trying to make.

You could argue goalies are more important in the NHL as well, however they don't get paid the same/more.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:27 AM   #26
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Different market conditions though. But perhaps I'm not understanding the rationale
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:00 PM   #27
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Starting goalies are more important, sure.

Backups are notoriously underused in the CPHL though.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:02 PM   #28
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Different market conditions though. But perhaps I'm not understanding the rationale
The rationale is a backup goalie should never be making 5.25-7.25 mill. How does that make any sense?
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:13 PM   #29
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^ leads to a lot more goalies on the UFA market I think. Not sure if thst is a good or bad thing.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:14 PM   #30
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For reference, it seems that the top CPHL goalies play 7 games more than the top NHL goalies

top 10 goalies in the NHL for games played
68, 67, 66, 66, 65, 65, 64, 62, 61, 60

CPHL
75,75,73,73,73,71,68,68,68,67 - and this is with a schedule that had a lot of rough spots for most teams.

didn't dig deeper into the stats to grab all starting goaltenders, but I can't imagine the pattern changes that much.

I'm betting it'll be worse this year, the EN ratings seem higher this year than last. I plan on playing Holtby in 78-80 games this year. And since goalies don't get hurt, there's absolutely zero reason for me to pay anything more than 2M for a backup goalie.

Enjoy your 2 free wins whomever gets to play against my unrated AHL goalie next year!
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:58 PM   #31
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So backups in the NHL play more and get paid significantly less then the CPHL. Basically the way the grids are at the moment for goalies, you would never re-sign your backup.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:04 PM   #32
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^ leads to a lot more goalies on the UFA market I think. Not sure if thst is a good or bad thing.
Also a lot of RFAs, which is probably bad?
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:20 PM   #33
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So backups in the NHL play more and get paid significantly less then the CPHL. Basically the way the grids are at the moment for goalies, you would never re-sign your backup.
I think that would be ok no?
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:45 PM   #34
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I think that would be ok no?
Not really. Say for example you had an up and coming guy like Korpisalo but already have an established starter you are paying 7 - 9m for. Why are you forced to pay him 5.25 - 6.5m just to play 10 games. 12.25 - 15.5m tied up into goaltending? It just isn't realistic. You aren't sure if Korpisalo is the real deal but have to keep him for minimum 5.25? How many backups in the NHL come even close to that kind of money?
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:40 PM   #35
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The top 31 ranked goalies are rated 80 or better.

To me there should be a division at that rate in terms of pay at that section to make it more reflective of NHL salaries. The cap being 75 million is basically a direct comparable to the CPHL. You simply don't see more than 8-9 million being spent on a tandem.

79 OV should be about 2 mil less for UFA's than they are and about 1.5 less for RFA's and each subsequent tick down should be lower. The 45th ranked goalies should be a max of 2.5 as UFA's and 60th ones should be 1.25-1.5. Instead those goalies get 4.5 and 2.75 million minimum as UFA's. That's nuts. A team should be able to retain goaltenders.

You either force teams to go with a younger crappy goaltender for a year or two, which at that rate they might as well rebuild because having a crap goalie will sink your team even if you have a good group. Or you have to give away the young guy, which screws teams over if they are being competitive because veteran goalies can have short life spans and you need to have quality guys coming after them. It's really a lose lose situation.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:49 PM   #36
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For defense, 1-60 makes between 10 and 7.5 on UFA grids, which is about right for top pairing D, slightly high, but not a big deal.

2nd pairing D make 4.5 to 6.75, which again is about right for UFA D

3rd pairing guys make 2-3.75, again about right.

1-90 forwards make 6.75-10 million, again that's about right for 1st line forwards
91-180 make 3.75 to 6.75 million, again about right
3rd and 4th line guys make from 2-3.75 million. Again right.

The only group that is completely out of whack for actual NHL salaries is the goalie group.
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:36 PM   #37
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I don't have a problem with the backup salary but to put it in perspective, if you gave every forward on my team a RFA 1 year deal Darcy Kuemper with 21 GP would be my 3rd highest played player compared to my forwards behind Tavares and Lucic

I have crappy forward depth, he would be 6th among defense as I'm a defense heavy team. Kuemper is signed 2 years for me so this has no results on my team just looking into the point being brought up and seeing if there's something to it

I would knock the threshold lower then the 79 mentioned above to 77ov and making a clear line for a backup rather then just 1ov from a starter
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Old 07-08-2016, 04:45 PM   #38
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My concern with putting a line in the sand to determine what a backup is and a starter is a little scary. A projected starter could really benefit from that process. A current backup could be a starter next year. It is just very hard to project that.
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Old 07-08-2016, 06:07 PM   #39
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Yeah this has always been a tricky problem, and one that isn't new this season. Highly rated backups have been hard to figure out what to do with, along with 1B types.
I've considered in the past having some sort of ratings where the salaries drop dramatically - to define starters from back-ups, but it just isn't that clear.
Anyways we will look at it.
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Old 07-08-2016, 06:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Yeah this has always been a tricky problem, and one that isn't new this season. Highly rated backups have been hard to figure out what to do with, along with 1B types.
I've considered in the past having some sort of ratings where the salaries drop dramatically - to define starters from back-ups, but it just isn't that clear.
Anyways we will look at it.
Even if there were sections that were tiered even a bit between the elite starters, the average ones (which would include the good backups) and then the average backups and the crappy fillers like Hiller/Lindback etc, where there is more of a sliding scale would make it more reflective of the other positions. it's the only one that's a little wonky, and even if any changes are a little off, it'll still be an improvement, even if it's not 100% perfect. Nothing ever is.

Thank you Grant for looking at it.
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