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Old 04-07-2011, 04:07 PM   #21
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Hey us pilots like things dumbed down for us!
Well the seeming inability to apply magnetic declination is another testament to this.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:10 PM   #22
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The parallel 16/34's will make things much better, goodbye to HIROP's and SIROP's and LAHSO procedures.

Over at SSP we have a forumer who is one of the ATC controllers in Edmonton that handles YYC arrivals and departures, his insight to the ops with the new runway have been very interesting. They've been waiting more than a decade for this runway, and are very happy to see it coming down the pipeline finally.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #23
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HIROP = High Intensity Runway Operations

SIROP = Simultaneous Intersecting Runway Operations

LAHSO = Land and Hold Short Operations

YYC gets to experience all of this because all 3 of our runways currently intersect another runway. Having the ability to land and depart aircraft on two parallel runways will allow for much more efficient operations. Just like in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:15 PM   #24
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You flyboys crack me up.
"Who wants to fly into the windy city? Conditions are windy."
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
Well the seeming inability to apply magnetic declination is another testament to this.
It can be a little confusing, as all printed wind reports are in true headings so you need to factor in the deviation. On the flip side when the winds are read to you over the radio it is the magnetic heading being given (so as to sync up with the runway identifiers nice and easy).
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:28 PM   #26
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How is this going to affect arrivals on Rwy 28? I assume this is the main culprit for SIROP's, but with the approach path inline with the end of 34R, does this effectively prevent 28 from being used when 34R is in operation?

I'm not sure if intersecting approaches are considered the same as intersecting runways? (I'd say no, but I'm curious).

Is there a report showing the proposed approaches?
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:33 PM   #27
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Incehon, Narita, Kansai, Hong Kong Intnl, Suvarnabhumi, etc etc.

Difference is they have a sound foundation and they are major internationals. Calgary is a remnant from the past patchworked to be functional that has been in need of major changes/additions - not renovations.
Korea's airports suck, especially Seoul's.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:47 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BlackArcher101 View Post
How is this going to affect arrivals on Rwy 28? I assume this is the main culprit for SIROP's, but with the approach path inline with the end of 34R, does this effectively prevent 28 from being used when 34R is in operation?

I'm not sure if intersecting approaches are considered the same as intersecting runways? (I'd say no, but I'm curious).

Is there a report showing the proposed approaches?
When the 34's or 16's are in use 28/10 will probably only be used for the odd departure, but not arrivals. Nav Canada is working on the new arrival and departure procedures, a lot of work to be done.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:02 PM   #29
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An SSP forumer got to visit the YYC control tower today and hear about the new tower and parallel runway. Very interesting point is that by the time the parallel is complete the magnetic headings of the runways will have to be changed (due to the magnetic pole movement over the years) to 35/17 (plus the other 2 runways will change designations).

http://integraair.blogspot.com/2011/...rol-tower.html

Last edited by Bigtime; 04-07-2011 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:07 PM   #30
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Korea's airports suck, especially Seoul's.
What an enlightened comment and thank you for the great contribution to the thread.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
An SSP forumer got to visit the YYC control tower today and hear about the new tower and parallel runway. Very interesting point is that by the time the parallel is complete the magnetic headings of the runways will have to be changed (due to the magnetic pole movement over the years) to 35/17 (plus the other 2 runways will change designations).

http://integraair.blogspot.com/2011/...rol-tower.html
I was going to say, by the time the new runway is done the magnetic pole is going to be almost in Russia. If it hasn't flipped by then.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
An SSP forumer got to visit the YYC control tower today and hear about the new tower and parallel runway. Very interesting point is that by the time the parallel is complete the magnetic headings of the runways will have to be changed (due to the magnetic pole movement over the years) to 35/17 (plus the other 2 runways will change designations).

http://integraair.blogspot.com/2011/...rol-tower.html
Interesting. Any word of similar changes to other airports in the Calgary area? Ex. Springbank, Red Deer, Edmonton etc
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:30 PM   #33
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Not to be too pedantic, but since you started it frinkprof.....

It is rounded and truncated. And magnetic declination, huh? I guess you are referring to magnetic deviation, and we manage.

Another runway will be great, and reduce delays for sure. It will be a gongshow when the strong West winds come up and everything is forced back onto 28 though.

Overall, don't get me started on airport authorities though....the most costly monopolies we have in Canadian aviation. It is excessive and costly renos and the associated ridiculous airport improvement fees that are driving many travellers to cross the border. And what will the Canadian airports do if they don't get as many travellers as planned to cover the costs? Raise the AIF's even more of course.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:53 PM   #34
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Korea's airports suck, especially Seoul's.
Care to explain yourself? Making a bold statement without backing up your opinion makes your opinion worth nothing. But then, opinion is like a-hole....everybody has one.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:59 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ryan Coke View Post
Not to be too pedantic, but since you started it frinkprof.....

It is rounded and truncated.
Touche.

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And magnetic declination, huh? I guess you are referring to magnetic deviation, and we manage.
I was referring to the runway naming conventions. ~160 degrees would be the magnetic bearing of the new runway, so you apply the declination to get the true bearing, which is ~180 (In Calgary at this given time anyway).

Anyway, I was just busting Bigtime's chops.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:17 PM   #36
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I have nothing fancy to add, but I am excited for 2014 to see how it turns out. Airport as it is now is old school.

Hopefully they make it a nicer place to be inside rather than having nothing to do at all but sit.
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Old 04-08-2011, 12:26 AM   #37
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I have nothing fancy to add, but I am excited for 2014 to see how it turns out. Airport as it is now is old school.

Hopefully they make it a nicer place to be inside rather than having nothing to do at all but sit.
At least we get free WIFI!!! That's a huge bonus. I rather that than some restaurants, but added places to eat would be nice.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:03 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
I was referring to the runway naming conventions. ~160 degrees would be the magnetic bearing of the new runway, so you apply the declination to get the true bearing, which is ~180 (In Calgary at this given time anyway).
True, but we really don't care about the true bearings of runways (unless you are up north) since everything navigation is done magnetic.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:07 AM   #39
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Another runway will be great, and reduce delays for sure. It will be a gongshow when the strong West winds come up and everything is forced back onto 28 though.
Here is our YYC ATC'er talking about that point:

"When the parallel is completed, pilots will increasingly need to be 'players' and take the long ones despite Chinook winds, strictly for capacity reasons. There's so much pavement there to 'grease' a landing with a 20+ knots crosswind that it'll have to become the modus operandi of the airport and its tenants, unless we're talking about extreme conditions, which I'm not. Capacity will take 30-50% hit when we're forced to go to E-W ops. "
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:36 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Here is our YYC ATC'er talking about that point:

"When the parallel is completed, pilots will increasingly need to be 'players' and take the long ones despite Chinook winds, strictly for capacity reasons. There's so much pavement there to 'grease' a landing with a 20+ knots crosswind that it'll have to become the modus operandi of the airport and its tenants, unless we're talking about extreme conditions, which I'm not. Capacity will take 30-50% hit when we're forced to go to E-W ops. "
How often are the Chinook winds higher than 20 knots? Would this be a big problem, say if a big Chinook corresponded to a very busy period like Christmastime?
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