May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[CaptainCrunch]

Joe Ceci is the worst, it shows how weak this government is that he is in what is pretty much the highest cabinet minister in the province.

If I was the opposition, when the budget comes out, with this deficit and a 3 billion dollar carbon tax, I would accuse them very being complete morons, and demanding that the government resign, even if its just for the reason that they've put out two incredibly terrible budgets.

[llwhiteoutll]

You missed the part of the article where they point out that the NDP is under investigation by the ethics commissioner now for trying to peddle access to the premier in the form of a $1000/plate dinner.

A dinner that was mysteriously cancelled just before it was to start when they heard about the investigation.

Or the $10,000/head event in Ontario that Notley's office lied to reporters about where she was going. “Accepting an award” turned into a private meeting with 20 reps from large companies that do business in Alberta.

[Locke]

In the inimitable words of Stars and Stripes who will make you famous!

NSFW!

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Locke

In the inimitable words of Stars and Stripes who will make you famous!

NSFW!

I think that perfectly sums up the next few years here. Way to go, Alberta.

[chemgear]

So, do nothing? Get nothing under control? Just keep spending more and more?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...lion-1.3463858

Finance Minister Joe Ceci finally uttered the words Thursday he tried so hard not to say just a day earlier, admitting that Alberta's projected deficit could reach a record this spring of $10.4 billion.
Ceci said public sector layoffs and tax increases are not on the table.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by chemgear

So, do nothing? Get nothing under control? Just keep spending more and more?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...lion-1.3463858

Finance Minister Joe Ceci finally uttered the words Thursday he tried so hard not to say just a day earlier, admitting that Alberta's projected deficit could reach a record this spring of $10.4 billion.
Ceci said public sector layoffs and tax increases are not on the table.

Of course they're not going to mess with their power-base, and they cant keep increasing taxes because you have to have some income in order to pay income taxes so they're just going to spend their way into oblivion until it isnt their problem anymore.

If I were a public sector employee I'd hold onto my butt as soon as the NDP are out of power because thats going to rapidly become an unpleasant situation.

When Joe Ceci gets out of office he should go back to Social Work, theres going to be a lot of work for him to do.

[CaptainCrunch]

The NDP aren't going to jeopardize their voter base, its not going to happen.

And they do have a tax increase its called the Carbon tax which goes to general revenues and effects every taxpayer, that's a tax. To say its not is completely misleading and dishonest. they also changed the tax structure last year which featured an increase.

The funny thing is that the next election is now going to shape up as a war between the public and private sector.

you can bet that cost cuts are going to be campaigned for by whatever amalgamation of the WR and PC's exist.

a 10.4 billion dollar deficit is absolutely ridiculous. I've been saying that this government is moving or creating one disaster to the next.

This budget is the next.

I can't believe that this government will do anything but completely wreck this economy in the next four years.

[CaptainCrunch]

Holy Crap Locke we posted the same thing at the same time

[Resolute 14]

So the NDP government of a single province of 3.5 million intends to run a deficit half the size of the federal government, which must mange 10x the population and has far greater international responsibilities. Christ ONTARIO's deficit was $10 billion last year. Notley is running a deficit so high that it is matching a jurisdiction who's debt is so out of control that it has its own Wikipedia article.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Holy Crap Locke we posted the same thing at the same time

Honestly, it seems the unavoidable outcome.

The NDP are heavily supported by Unions and Public Sector workers and obviously their corresponding Unions.

But you cant raise taxes on the private sector, see 100,000 private sector jobs lost while the highest paid public sector in the country skips along without missing a beat based on the Government's unwavering willingness to spend money they dont have.

Especially if you dont have the confidence that that same Government has a snowball's chance in hell at getting re-elected so that they can continue to provide that unwavering security to the public sector.

I keep saying that we need to find a balance between private and public but unfortunately it is naive to think that when one half of our economy is currently bearing 100% of the burden one can not expect to not have an equal and corresponding correction to the other side of the economy eventually.

And that puts the public and private sectors at war. And thats terrible. For all of us. But its going to happen.

You cant take a huge chunk out of one and not expect that the other is going to need to take an equal cut eventually as well. And then hopefully someone can come in and try and maintain some balance.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

why should that matter Slave? The Wildrose isn't the government, they're not running in an election right now, their job is to oppose the budget and point out the problems and shortfalls about it.

I doubt any government could balance the budget right now, that's a given, but at the same time, you can't go around spending like a drunken moron without balancing your spending with cuts. The Government is the biggest cost sink in the budget, especially when you look at the bloat and the poor delivery of service even though we pay a lot more per person for it then any other province.

The day and the age of the solutions being "Throw more money at it" are over, and the NDP is going to have to eventually piss off their voter base.

I knew the economy was bad, but I was still hoping to eke out something of a living?!

I don't know if it really matters. I just think that in the overall context of the dicsussion it seems to be lost that we have some deep issues in the province, and likely no party can do much about it. Our problems have less to do with politics and much more to do with a global economic phenomena. So while it might feel good to blame the government of the day, the reality is that the problem began before the election even started and could well last past the election in a few years.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Dude, you are pathologically incapable of engaging in a discussion about the government's - both PC and NDP - budgetary practices without relying on "But, Wildrose!" as the basis of any comment. It is a deflection tactic, and you do it every time.

Thankfully we have comments like this to keep things on track and drive the discussion forward though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just think that in the overall context of the dicsussion it seems to be lost that we have some deep issues in the province, and likely no party can do much about it. Our problems have less to do with politics and much more to do with a global economic phenomena.

I disagree. The desire by most Albertans to have some of the lowest taxes in the civilized world while expecting public services that are second-to-none is a huge political problem. The last politician to point out the incomparability of those two desires was vilified for it. Basically, Alberta has an extraordinarily entitled population.

It's not as though we're trying to do something unique here. There are places in the world that don't have oil, don't have royalties of any kind, and still manage to provide a decent standard of living and high quality public services to citizens.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I disagree. The desire by most Albertans to have some of the lowest taxes in the civilized world while expecting public services that are second-to-none is a huge political problem. The last politicians to point out the incomparability of those two desires was vilified for it. Basically, Alberta has an extraordinarily entitled population.

It's not as though we're trying to do something unique here. There are places in the world that don't have oil, don't have royalties of any kind, and still manage to provide a decent standard of living and high quality public services to citizens.

Granted, but the problem being in Alberta that we pay the most for our services and rank low in terms of deliverables. We have some of the worst wait times in the province in health care for example. I think we rank middle of the pack in terms of educational returns. Yet we pay the most for it.

For successive governments and yes the cons were bad for it, the solution has been to throw money at it, specifically in terms of wages and benefit.

That system is not working.

And right now with the economy the way it is, we can't afford to keep pissing money against the wall.

We can't afford to keep paying orders of magnitude more then other provinces, we certainly can't afford the public sector benefits and pensions, the deficit is clearly showing that. We are never going to get back to the salad days of $100 or probably even $80.00 per barrel again, so this government has to adjust to the new reality.

They need to look at both the costs and efficiency deficits of the business of government, and we're going to have to either get cheaper or smaller.

The difficult thing is the reality that this NDP government should be taking a hard line in all of the 100+ collective bargaining agreements that are under negotiation this year, its no longer a matter of saying a wage freeze is sufficient. Its not with a deficit that is not only growing. But the governments day to day operations are operating at a loss.

And you can't keep thinking that raising taxes is the answer, taxes as a whole are regressive.

[robaur]

Wow this page is a whole bunch of BS thrown against the wall and simply raging.

Come up with a plan - CaptainCrunch and tell me what you would do. You're just speaking in generalities.

You want to the government to get rid of all public services in order to try and balance a mathematical figure? You've lost your mind.

Millions of Albertans require public services every single day.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by robaur

Wow this page is a whole bunch of BS thrown against the wall and simply raging.

Come up with a plan - CaptainCrunch and tell me what you would do. You're just speaking in generalities.

You want to the government to get rid of all public services in order to try and balance a mathematical figure? You've lost your mind.

Millions of Albertans require public services every single day.

A) I'm not in government

B) Where in the frack did I say that I wanted to get rid of all government services

C) Look up the stats on health care deliveries and other government deliveries, we don't exactly rank up there with the other provinces

D) Look up the costs, we pay our government workers more then any other province in Canada and its not close when you do salary comparisons

E) Look at the damn budgets, we are running a day to day deficit just to keep the government going, that is an enormous problem

F) We are now running a deficit that's nearly half as large as the deficit that the government is running the country


So

To conclude, we have a inefficient and over paid and over staffed government sector. Most of the bloat is not on the front line, ie teachers, doctors, nurses, but in the back room administration because we replicate so many services.

We have a province that is running a 10 + billion dollar deficit, that has almost doubled from last years deficit.

We can't keep doing things the same way period.

So, here we go, across the board, we reduce salaries of inside workers to match the rest of Canada.

The Pensions get slashed to a point that they're fundable

We do an efficiency study to not only reduce the required employment levels for administration and logistics, but also a man power study, then we take the savings a look to invest them into front line manpower.

Now to look at your post

How in the blue hell is what we're doing right now at all logical, smart and efficient.

The government right now has to shrink, that's just the way it is.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by robaur

Wow this page is a whole bunch of BS thrown against the wall and simply raging.

Come up with a plan - CaptainCrunch and tell me what you would do. You're just speaking in generalities.

You want to the government to get rid of all public services in order to try and balance a mathematical figure? You've lost your mind.

Millions of Albertans require public services every single day.

Speaking of thoughtless BS. No one has said that. No one has even hinted at that because thats batcrap crazy.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by robaur

Wow this page is a whole bunch of BS thrown against the wall and simply raging.

Come up with a plan - CaptainCrunch and tell me what you would do. You're just speaking in generalities.

You want to the government to get rid of all public services in order to try and balance a mathematical figure? You've lost your mind.

Millions of Albertans require public services every single day.

I agree that the solution isn't to eliminate or slash public service budgets. In these awful times, that would be a bad mistake, but maybe, there could be a reasonable discussion on a pay decrease until oil gets back over $60 a barrel on say any salary over the current AB average.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by robaur

You want to the government to get rid of all public services in order to try and balance a mathematical figure? You've lost your mind.

Who? What? Where?

[chemgear]

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...-to-stand-tall

Rachel Notley needs to get out of bed early one morning, lock herself in the bathroom, look in the mirror, and repeat, “I am premier of Alberta,” as many times as necessary until she actually believes it.

Because at the moment, she’s still stuck with the mindset of being the NDP head honcho, rather than the person ultimately standing on guard for all Albertans. And, if she can persuade herself she bears that mantle, then her first act as leader should be to boot that $10-billion-embarrassment of a provincial treasurer and give him a cabinet post more befitting his talents — Minister Responsible for the Status of Big Horn Sheep, perhaps.

And in return, what does Notley do? She nips off to Ontario to have a glad-handing session with provincial NDP supporters — all happily shelling out $10,000 to see this modern-day Nero with an updated carbon plan and a willingness to let the rest of Canada enjoy the bonfire.

Enough as well with the social engineering grandstanding, which sees heavily pregnant women promoted to cabinet. For goodness sake, the status of women in this province right now is exactly the same as the status of men — unemployed.

Meanwhile, as the pink slips keep coming, the very idea that it’s time to rein in spending and roll back provincial salaries — yes, including those sainted nurses and teachers whose pay scales are the envy of the rest of their Canadian colleagues — is treated with incredulity by Notley’s happy campers.

Before that however, we need to find ourselves a premier willing to stand and fight, tooth and nail, night and day with everyone and everything standing in Alberta’s way. Perhaps that person does exist in Notley’s mirror. For all our sakes, let’s hope so.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...-to-stand-tall

Rachel Notley needs to get out of bed early one morning, lock herself in the bathroom, look in the mirror, and repeat, “I am premier of Alberta,” as many times as necessary until she actually believes it.

Because at the moment, she’s still stuck with the mindset of being the NDP head honcho, rather than the person ultimately standing on guard for all Albertans. And, if she can persuade herself she bears that mantle, then her first act as leader should be to boot that $10-billion-embarrassment of a provincial treasurer and give him a cabinet post more befitting his talents — Minister Responsible for the Status of Big Horn Sheep, perhaps.

And in return, what does Notley do? She nips off to Ontario to have a glad-handing session with provincial NDP supporters — all happily shelling out $10,000 to see this modern-day Nero with an updated carbon plan and a willingness to let the rest of Canada enjoy the bonfire.

Enough as well with the social engineering grandstanding, which sees heavily pregnant women promoted to cabinet. For goodness sake, the status of women in this province right now is exactly the same as the status of men — unemployed.

Meanwhile, as the pink slips keep coming, the very idea that it’s time to rein in spending and roll back provincial salaries — yes, including those sainted nurses and teachers whose pay scales are the envy of the rest of their Canadian colleagues — is treated with incredulity by Notley’s happy campers.

Before that however, we need to find ourselves a premier willing to stand and fight, tooth and nail, night and day with everyone and everything standing in Alberta’s way. Perhaps that person does exist in Notley’s mirror. For all our sakes, let’s hope so.

You know, it'd be a lot easier to take the opposition seriously if there were ever any constructive criticism or alternative ideas proposed. Instead we get a bunch of "adults" throwing temper tantrums. I'm fully on board with going after the NDP for their failures, but how about establishing yourself as a viable alternative. Where is the WRP's shadow budget? What are their plans for fixing unemployment in the province? How about the PCs? The only party that actually seems to be putting out alternatives is the Alberta Party.

I guess if oil doesn't recover at least there will be a booming salt industry to fall back on.