QOTD: Who is Joe Colborne?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by timbit

Getting to the puck first, protecting the puck, winning puck battles and overall puck possession which lead to big OZ time are huge factors in winning hockey games....if you have extraordinary goaltending, which the Flames have enjoyed this season, that is a bonus.

The players and teams that are doing a lot of the hitting don't have the puck much. They spend a lot of time chasing and arriving second.

True Grit is getting to the puck first....not being there second and landing a hit, after the opponent has gained possession and puck control.

Not rocket science.

and yet the teams that hit a lot as group win the Stanley cup on a more than regular basis and are in the top teams in the league.

2013-14 LA kings 9 players with 2 hits /game ... just chasing the puck around and coming in second?

Teams that rely on a few goons or don't hit at all don't make the playoffs and get high draft picks.

[GioforPM]

Once again, it's situational and result based. A lot of Glencross hits don't loosen the puck, in fact, it's already gone. Bollig is better at hitting to retrieve a puck IMO. And without any evidence to back me up, I suspect Colborne's get good results because he doesn't atrike me as a guy who hits just to hit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

and yet the teams that hit a lot as group win the Stanley cup on a more than regular basis and are in the top teams in the league.

2013-14 LA kings 9 players with 2 hits /game ... just chasing the puck around and coming in second?

Teams that rely on a few goons or don't hit at all don't make the playoffs and get high draft picks.

Is there a more subjective statistic than hits?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Is there a more subjective statistic than hits?

Nope. Varies wildly from rink to rink, as well.

[Enoch Root]

For those that think 40 or 50 points is a stretch, here are Colborne's numbers, in 20 game segments last year and this year: (G-A-P-82 game pace)

1st 20: 1-3-4-16
2nd 20: 3-4-7-29
3rd 20: 1-6-7-29
4th 20: 5-5-10-41
This yr: 0-8-8-73

Obviously he won't maintain a 73 pt pace, but when you look at his progression throughout last season, and the way he has carried it into this season, suggesting 40 pts is not only not a stretch, but he has already been maintaining that pace for some time.

In fact, if you look at his last 41 games (half a season), he has 6-19-25 or exactly a 50 pt pace.

I chose top 6 winger btw, but IMO he is a 2nd/3rd line winger.

[delayedreflex]

I feel like Colborne fits in a lot better as a winger, and his ability to play RW fills an organizational need right now given our depth at LW and centre moving forward - he can always do what Iggy did for a bit there and take draws, then move back over to the wing during actual play.

[Caged Great]

If you have him as a quality 2nd/3rd line RW, I feel that's a good role for him. He has improved quite a lot since the beginning of last year.

[DT77]

Originally Posted by Bingo

came to Calgary heralded as the next David Steckel, moved to the wing, then back to center, then back to the wing.

Seems to be the poster boy for wanting to be here, and getting in front of microphones.

Now has 8 assists in 9 games to start an NHL season suggesting he may just be more than a Steckel or a third line center.

Who is this guy?

[AcGold]

With his physical gifts he could be easily be a top six guy. It comes down to whether he puts it together or not, the other night he laid out a hit and was visibly surprised when the guy crumpled into a heap not realizing he had the strength for it.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Didn't 3 of those come in 1 game? Not sure that makes him a top 6 guy, so I went 3rd line, but would suggest he could be a modern Joel Otto which would be the best 3rd line center you could ask for.

That leaves 5 points in his other 8 games, a 50+ point pace. Not a stretch to say he will continue to improve and be a top 6 forward.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think people are selling Joe short here. He was drafted and projected to be a top 6 player and that is what he is breaking out as.

Still too early into the season to expect him to be a top 6 player. Until he proves he can put up a top 6 PPG for one full season, I'll keep my expectations low for now.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Still too early into the season to expect him to be a top 6 player. Until he proves he can put up a top 6 PPG for one full season, I'll keep my expectations low for now.

So once he does it, then you will expect him to be able to do it? Bold

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Still too early into the season to expect him to be a top 6 player. Until he proves he can put up a top 6 PPG for one full season, I'll keep my expectations low for now.

I have to say that this is a crazy an unrealistic argument point and expectation. Do you honestly think to be a good team we need 6 players with PPG stats? no team in the league can accomplish that.

The question was " what will a developed Colborne be? " After 42 points in 105 nhl games and a 28 point season, I voted top six winger. He has shown steady growth in controlled physical play, defense, faceoff's and consistent contribution on offence.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Lumby Lager

I have to say that this is a crazy an unrealistic argument point and expectation. Do you honestly think to be a good team we need 6 players with PPG stats? no team in the league can accomplish that.

The question was " what will a developed Colborne be? " After 42 points in 105 nhl games and a 28 point season, I voted top six winger. He has shown steady growth in controlled physical play, defense, faceoff's and consistent contribution on offence.

I think he meant the level of PPG, not 1 PPG.

[Lumby Lager]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think he meant the level of PPG, not 1 PPG.

Read it again, my mistake...thanks for pointing that out

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

and yet the teams that hit a lot as group win the Stanley cup on a more than regular basis and are in the top teams in the league.

2013-14 LA kings 9 players with 2 hits /game ... just chasing the puck around and coming in second?

Teams that rely on a few goons or don't hit at all don't make the playoffs and get high draft picks.

I hear what you're saying and the Kings are a big physical team, but its pretty well known in NHL circles that any time you get within 18 inches of a guy at the Staple Center gets you a registered hit.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hear what you're saying and the Kings are a big physical team, but its pretty well known in NHL circles that any time you get within 18 inches of a guy at the Staple Center gets you a registered hit.

as did the 2010-11 SC Champs the Boston Bruins with 15 players (out of 16 that dress on a regular basis) having more than 1 hit /game in their playoff run.


The 2011-12 SC champs Hawks were not adverse to chasing and hitting in their SC run with 5 regulars with over 2 hits games, most of the other guys around 1 hit a game and Patrick Kane not hitting anyone at all.

Colborne will be top 6 so long as he continues to play physically.



Is Lucic a top 3 or even top 6 forward if he just relied on his skill rather than his size and willingness to take the body?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

as did the 2010-11 SC Champs the Boston Bruins with 15 players (out of 16 that dress on a regular basis) having more than 1 hit /game in their playoff run.


The 2011-12 SC champs Hawks were not adverse to chasing and hitting in their SC run with 5 regulars with over 2 hits games, most of the other guys around 1 hit a game and Patrick Kane not hitting anyone at all.

Colborne will be top 6 so long as he continues to play physically.



Is Lucic a top 3 or even top 6 forward if he just relied on his skill rather than his size and willingness to take the body?

What Bingo was saying is that the stat is completely unreliable. It's a judgement call and not consistent. To draw conclusions from it is impossible

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hear what you're saying and the Kings are a big physical team, but its pretty well known in NHL circles that any time you get within 18 inches of a guy at the Staple Center gets you a registered hit.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

as did the 2010-11 SC Champs the Boston Bruins with 15 players (out of 16 that dress on a regular basis) having more than 1 hit /game in their playoff run.


The 2011-12 SC champs Hawks were not adverse to chasing and hitting in their SC run with 5 regulars with over 2 hits games, most of the other guys around 1 hit a game and Patrick Kane not hitting anyone at all.

Colborne will be top 6 so long as he continues to play physically.



Is Lucic a top 3 or even top 6 forward if he just relied on his skill rather than his size and willingness to take the body?

I feel like there's no way you actually read the post you quoted. Do you just kind of springboard off random posts so you can blurt out as many stats as you possibly can?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I feel like there's no way you actually read the post you quoted. Do you just kind of springboard off random posts so you can blurt out as many stats as you possibly can?

If the Kings were getting phantom hits then were Chicago and Boston also getting phantom hits?

Is it just Edmonton and Calgary who for the last 3 years have had small timid teams that count only real hits.

As for hits being a weak stat.... Shots on goal, missed shots and blocked shots.... on which all CORSI-like advanced stats are based are judgement calls that would be prone to homerism as well.