American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[nik-]

DAVID MUIR: But Mr. President, will they be allowed to stay?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm gonna tell you over the next four weeks. But I will tell you, we're looking at this, the whole immigration situation, we're looking at it with great heart. Now we have criminals that are here. We have really bad people that are here. Those people have to be worried 'cause they're getting out. We're gonna get them out. We're gonna get 'em out fast. General Kelly is -- I've given that as his number one priority.

God, I want him to end up doing an amnesty plan so bad. Republicans are already talking about it, they're starting to prep their base for it. It's going to be so hilarious when the Trump hardliners have to eat that bowl of ####.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm trying to explain to myself how this current trajectory of US politics won't result in civil war, but I cannot come up with any good reasons.

One side of the partisanship drastically out guns the other. That's probably a good reason.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by station

You're assuming it's only targeting illegals. From the article:

The order doesn’t say whether the list would single out only undocumented immigrants, or all immigrants.

Immigrant could mean US citizens, US residents, those on work visas, etc. all legally allowed in the country. If there are dangerous individuals who are illegals then by all means send them home, but as you say the Dept of Immigration already has that authority. The questions is why should only immigrants be singled out on a gov't website? It's implying that immigrants commit more crime (patently untrue) and it's public persecution plain and simple.

From what I know about all this, I would be AGAINST this if it included US citizens who are(or "were"?) also legal immigrants.

This should not apply to any American citizen.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Well your previous line of thinking was the same thinking that the Republican Party, Republican Presidential Candidates, the media, the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton's campaign team thought and followed.

And saw Trump not only go away, but instead becoming President.

He has a strategy of doing things to dominate the media cycle. It's all about him. It's taking the front few pages of news away from detailed analysis of his plan, transition team, or whatever is a risk for critique at a given moment. And he's signing orders on items that he campaigned on, building a narrative he'll point to throughout his presidency.

So go ahead and call it dumb luck, dismiss all his voters as uneducated hicks, and 36 months from now you'll still be waiting for it to fall apart.

(And I say this as a person who was on the record as saying I would have voted Clinton)

I think the only thing I've said is there is no plan, and that he's mentally unstable, likely with dementia. I'm actually finally starting to see more and more people suggest he does have dementia. Did not see it suggested very much in the election at all, by anyone (except to toot my own horn, I have been for a while now).

You believe everything he's doing is well mapped out and planned, because it's a lot easier to sleep at night thinking that it's that way, and not the other way: that he's mentally unstable. Because the thought of the leader of the free world, with the most technologically advanced military there is, being demented....is frightening, obviously. To quote a little Dark Knight, you're cool with a plan, even if it's horrifying, because it suggests order. But he literally has no plan, if you met him today, the last person before he had a presser, and you said "Canadians are smuggling Americans into Canada and harvesting their organs"....would you like to guess what he's spending his entire presser on?

Like the Bernhard Langer thing is his entire basis for thinking 3-5 million voted illegally. Here's Bernhard breaking it down...Trump got it 4th or 5th hand, and is using it as fact. But sure, it's alllll a plan....

[station]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And lets be honest here. A white, Christian Canadian who is in the US illegally and commits a crime won't be on the list. Only those evil brown people who pray to the wrong flavour of god and the ones that speak Spanish.

Exactly. So, what constitutes "immigrant". And what constitutes a crime? Felonies only or anything goes? My father is a white Canadian citizen, US resident living in Las Vegas. He's an immigrant. He has money, pays taxes and is quietly retired. If he was charged with say a serious driving offence or even a white collar crime do you think he'll be on a list? But a Mexican who steals a loaf of bread? Who knows but it sure leaves a lot of grey area.

[Locke]

Is 'turnabout fair play?"

Should citizens be asking to see Trump's family's legal immigration records?

Was he not adamant that he would not respect Obama until he saw his Birth Certificate?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm trying to explain to myself how this current trajectory of US politics won't result in civil war, but I cannot come up with any good reasons.

There's no way out. One side (the larger one) will not back down over civil liberties and progress. The other (the more armed one) will not back down over perceived loss of their "America"

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There's no way out. One side (the larger one) will not back down over civil liberties and progress. The other (the more armed one) will not back down over perceived loss of their "America"

The left has been backing down for 6 years now. A civil war would require a spine, and the Dems just don't even have one right now.

[jeffporfirio]

I wonder if Trump's base will insist that he keep his campaign promise to lock Hillary Clinton up?

[dobbles]

I am with killer carlson about people that continue to try and put these long con scenarios out there as being out of touch. While I certainly think Trump is as dumb as anyone else, the fact that his plan has worked is still just not sinking in. The fact that the republican party fell in line 100% has got to sink in. I would have to look up the numbers, but after the election, there was a statistic that showed the percentage of R voters that ended up not voting for him was much smaller than the D voters that didn't go for Clinton. So after all those months of nevertrump blather, everyone fell in line. After all the posturing by people by Cruz and Rubio, they endorsed him. After all the threats of blocking nominations people like Rubio, McCain, and Graham have pretty much ceded the fight. After all the public criticism between the Trump camp and the RNC, Priebus becomes part of administration. After all the whining by conservatives about bringing in fringe people like Bannon, they supported him.

Is it not obvious that there is no other play for the Republican party and that no one has any backbone to stand up for themselves??? The entire Clinton campaign strategy was let Trump talk himself into a defeat. They too underestimated how easy it is to distract American voters. All we can hope for is that the media and science can somehow convince the public at large to trust them and then use that trust to show as many Americans as they can why Trump has been bad for the country. Hopefully in 2 years the Dems have a better strategy to win some elections. But considering how effective the republican party has become at gerrymandering and voter suppression, I highly doubt it.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by station

Exactly. So, what constitutes "immigrant". And what constitutes a crime? Felonies only or anything goes? My father is a white Canadian citizen, US resident living in Las Vegas. He's an immigrant. He has money, pays taxes and is quietly retired. If he was charged with say a serious driving offence or even a white collar crime do you think he'll be on a list? But a Mexican who steals a loaf of bread? Who knows but it sure leaves a lot of grey area.

Too much grey area right now.

With a "reasonable" interpretation, this new order makes some sense. But what a lot of people are worried about is that the majority definition of "reasonable" is not the Trump definition of "reasonable."

What will the courts decide?

[DuffMan]

I fully believe he is mentally unstable and just throwing s**t everywhere like a monkey. some of it may make sense and look like a well thought out plan, but it's just numbers. the more crap he throws around the better chance some may actually look sane.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

I wonder if Trump's base will insist that he keep his campaign promise to lock Hillary Clinton up?

I'm going to say no.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f269dc396571

In the 60 Minutes interview he says no as well.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by nik-

The left has been backing down for 6 years now. A civil war would require a spine, and the Dems just don't even have one right now.

There's always a tipping point

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Some cities have bylaws that prevent officers and municipal employees from asking people if they are citizens ("sanctuary cities").

Sorry to quote myself, but I just wanted to add that this is important for some cities where the police require undocumented residents to come forward as witnesses to report violent crimes.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think the only thing I've said is there is no plan, and that he's mentally unstable, likely with dementia. I'm actually finally starting to see more and more people suggest he does have dementia. Did not see it suggested very much in the election at all, by anyone (except to toot my own horn, I have been for a while now).

You believe everything he's doing is well mapped out and planned, because it's a lot easier to sleep at night thinking that it's that way, and not the other way: that he's mentally unstable. Because the thought of the leader of the free world, with the most technologically advanced military there is, being demented....is frightening, obviously. To quote a little Dark Knight, you're cool with a plan, even if it's horrifying, because it suggests order. But he literally has no plan, if you met him today, the last person before he had a presser, and you said "Canadians are smuggling Americans into Canada and harvesting their organs"....would you like to guess what he's spending his entire presser on?

Like the Bernhard Langer thing is his entire basis for thinking 3-5 million voted illegally. Here's Bernhard breaking it down...Trump got it 4th or 5th hand, and is using it as fact. But sure, it's alllll a plan....

It's less likely dementia than some other mental illness. This has been Trump's behavior for decades.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

I wonder if Trump's base will insist that he keep his campaign promise to lock Hillary Clinton up?

He already said he won, so he doesn't care anymore.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There's always a tipping point

Well they couldn't get motivated to get out and vote against the least qualified candidate for president ever. Who was also racist and misogynist. So what is it going to take to actually take up arms? Death camps?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Does anyone know what the 'real' margin of victory was in this election? How many votes won Trump the election? That will tell you just how secure the Republicans are and just how 'out of touch' some people are. The number is minuscule in the big picture. In retrospect, this election result was a fluke. The number is very easy to swing the other way.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's less likely dementia than some other mental illness. This has been Trump's behavior for decades.

The thing is, it hasn't. He's always been self-aggrandizing and close to OD'ing on his own ego yes, but go watch some of his interviews in the 90s. He comes off as significantly more lucid and stable, at times even pragmatic. Then watch his interviews the last few years. Add in his family history of dementia too, and it's not even a stretch to suggest it. In fact, Republicans already are wondering about him.

President Donald Trump’s obsessions with defending his inauguration crowd size and embracing false “voter fraud” conspiracies has reportedly led some members of his own party to question his emotional well being.

Reporter Carl Bernstein went on CNN Tonight with Don Lemon this week, and he said that he’s been hearing from Republicans in Washington D.C. who are concerned about the president’s overall mental health.

“It is unlike anything that I have seen in 50 years of being a reporter,” said Bernstein, who first made his name by breaking stories on the Watergate scandal while working for the Washington Post. “I am hearing from Republicans, and other reporters are as well, that there is open discussion by members of the President of the United States’ own party about his emotional maturity, stability.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/carl...nal-stability/