American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[MRCboicgy]

Just effing stop it. All of you.

Get back on topic now - or create a thread discussing what you like don't like about currently political systems around the world, or whatever. Just stop with all the extraneous threadcrap.

[Wormius]

Where is Springs1 when you need some sanity.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

It's the road to an inefficient costly system where the government is in control. Not a gulag, but not desirable either. That's quite the leap there. Oh leftist tactics of argumentation are tiring.

The statistics say completely otherwise. Highest costs per capita in the world vs. everyone else. You're the one who brought up the 100 million dead, or are you a goldfish?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How many, which ones, and how big is your timeline?

Trump, Brexit. I guess we shall see what happens with these other European elections pretty soon here. I can't see Trudeau getting in again, but who knows with this Country at this point.

[DuffMan]

This is going to be great when Manafort, Sessions, Flynn and creepy Miller get subpoenaed.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Just effing stop it. All of you.

Get back on topic now - or create a thread discussing what you like don't like about currently political systems around the world, or whatever. Just stop with all the extraneous threadcrap.

Are we allowed to discuss Healthcare? It's a big issue being talked about with this current administration.

[Drak]

Russian attorney involved in US money-laundering case reportedly ‘thrown’ from 4th story apartment


Gorokhov was set to be a witness in USA v. Prevezon, a cause that, until recently, was being prosecuted by fired U.S. attorney Preet Bharara. President Donald Trump ousted Bharara in a high-profile firing last week. As BuzzFeed reports, one of the attorneys reportedly on the shortlist to replace Bharara is US Attorney General Michael Mukasey, who in the past defended Prevezon.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/rus...ory-apartment/

[PepsiFree]

nvm, saw MRC's post.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Are we allowed to discuss Healthcare? It's a big issue being talked about with this current administration.

The current bill and what's going on with it.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

The current bill and what's going on with it.

It's moving money from the poor to the rich.

[Senator Clay Davis]

What's going on with it is it's still in trouble. And even if it gets through the House, the Senate is going to be even tougher.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I agree with you, there should be regulations that restrict this oligopoly, which actually is a violation of the free market. There needs to be some regulations that address this price fixing, and there needs to be some regulations cut as well. Actual competition and incentive are the only things that can keep the price down.

I don't think you need the private sector to keep the price down. Look at Saskatchewan and Manitoba telecom. There pricing is half of what the price elsewhere in Canada and it returns profit to the government.

It is a myth that the government can't drive cost down. What the government isn't incentivized to do is innovate. Innovation can bring new tech or drive down costs and is achieved through failure and market selection.

So in a relatively mature industry like basic health services a publicly funded system should give excellent results. In the drug industry the profit motive drives innovation. So a balance of private sector innovation and public options is required. Ignoring the value a governments effectiveness in delivering services in a monopoly or oligopoly environment and relying on capitalism to deliver optimal outcomes is as foolish as expecting communism to work.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

This is going to be great when Manafort, Sessions, Flynn and creepy Miller get subpoenaed.

Which one of them trades immunity for Trump. If they have enough evidence to charge one of them they will flip up quickly

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Texas Flames Fan

Buddy this is happening in every state. Not just Texas. In fact Texas was hit a lot less than other states. Restricting insurance to each state is a federal issue.

You're right, healthcare costs are going up in every state. What an incredibly shocking development you've managed to point out. Now, go back and take a look at those links that I responded to you with, and read them. The ACA actually put a significant drag on rising healthcare costs, proof provided by the Kaiser Family Foundation. Costs were going through the roof before the ACA. That spike is fully on insurance companies. And the major spike in Texas is a result of the State of Texas mismanaging their system.

Now, pal, if you want to point a finger of blame about the ACA, how about you point it at the Republicans who made the bill much more complex than it had to be? They were the ones who negotiated it and made it worse. They were the ones who put the language in the law that restricted insurance to each state. When are you going to acknowledge that the problems are a result of both parties coming up with a bad compromise because the Republicans were willing to obstruct the process?

If you want to point a finger at someone for the crap state of healthcare point it right at those same Republicans who refuse to acknowledge that the market is out of control and only proper regulation will bring it back into line. When you make it beneficial to some to keep people sick, and corporations can profiteer from people being sick, you can bet your ass that the "market" is going to do everything in their power to do just that. A proper functioning "healthcare system" focuses on making people well, not making money off the misfortune of those battling illness.

[Texas Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're right, healthcare costs are going up in every state. What an incredibly shocking development you've managed to point out. Now, go back and take a look at those links that I responded to you with, and read them. The ACA actually put a significant drag on rising healthcare costs, proof provided by the Kaiser Family Foundation. Costs were going through the roof before the ACA. That spike is fully on insurance companies. And the major spike in Texas is a result of the State of Texas mismanaging their system.

Now, pal, if you want to point a finger of blame about the ACA, how about you point it at the Republicans who made the bill much more complex than it had to be? They were the ones who negotiated it and made it worse. They were the ones who put the language in the law that restricted insurance to each state. When are you going to acknowledge that the problems are a result of both parties coming up with a bad compromise because the Republicans were willing to obstruct the process?

If you want to point a finger at someone for the crap state of healthcare point it right at those same Republicans who refuse to acknowledge that the market is out of control and only proper regulation will bring it back into line. When you make it beneficial to some to keep people sick, and corporations can profiteer from people being sick, you can bet your ass that the "market" is going to do everything in their power to do just that. A proper functioning "healthcare system" focuses on making people well, not making money off the misfortune of those battling illness.

49% increase in one year is shocking. If you want to blame the republicans for Obamacare go for it. I don't care who you blame. The point is what we have now doesn't work and needs to be repealed and replaced. Even you can admit that right?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't think you need the private sector to keep the price down. Look at Saskatchewan and Manitoba telecom. There pricing is half of what the price elsewhere in Canada and it returns profit to the government.

It is a myth that the government can't drive cost down. What the government isn't incentivized to do is innovate. Innovation can bring new tech or drive down costs and is achieved through failure and market selection.

So in a relatively mature industry like basic health services a publicly funded system should give excellent results. In the drug industry the profit motive drives innovation. So a balance of private sector innovation and public options is required. Ignoring the value a governments effectiveness in delivering services in a monopoly or oligopoly environment and relying on capitalism to deliver optimal outcomes is as foolish as expecting communism to work.

That's kind of cherry picking with Sask and Man Telecom. We pay the highest rates in the world. Part of that is because of how vast of a Country it is and the amount of infrastucture required to provide the service. I don't think it's a valid argument.

The free market, free of government interference is much better at keeping costs down and innovating. Otherwise we might as well have the government control the means of production for the entire economy, we already seen how that doesn't work.

That's the problem with the public funded system, it's very basic and expensive for what it offers, there's also a shortage of Doctors because there is no incentive and they choose to go to other places to practice (The USA). There needs to be competition to keep things efficient, cost effective and innovative. The free market needs to be allowed to operate, free of government and ologopoly's.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Elizabeth Warren‏Verified account
@SenWarren

The FBI Director testified @realDonaldTrump's campaign is under investigation for collusion w/ Russia. Lifetime court appointments can wait.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Texas Flames Fan

49% increase in one year is shocking. If you want to blame the republicans for Obamacare go for it. I don't care who you blame. The point is what we have now doesn't work and needs to be repealed and replaced. Even you can admit that right?

Bro don't you know the answer to all of societies problems is more government? This coming from a guy that apparently worked in the government, so trust New Era, he would know.

Obamacare was terrible, the Dems have to own that one and not deflect blame which is their go to move.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Texas Flames Fan

49% increase in one year is shocking. If you want to blame the republicans for Obamacare go for it. I don't care who you blame. The point is what we have now doesn't work and needs to be repealed and replaced. Even you can admit that right?

No, that's stupid because the Republicans are proposing NOTHING to actually fix the problems. Take the existing law and improve it! Don't throw out the good things and then make it worse by weakening its strengths. If you want to be honest about what the Republican plan is it is nothing more than a massive tax break for the rich on the backs of the poor and the middle class. Those premiums increases you are feeling will only get worse and the money will be funneled directly to people who already make more money in a week than you do in a year.

And please save your complaint about your rate increase. As I have already pointed out, between 2001 and 2006 people were seeing 61% increases in their insurance premiums. Pretty scary stuff then, where were your complaints then? How about admitting that the problem with the American system is the weak federation they have? If that federation was stronger the United States could quickly and easily fix the problems that plague the country. The problem is that there are people more interested in securing power through weakening the federated powers and establishing similar governmental structures in every state.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Bro don't you know the answer to all of societies problems is more government? This coming from a guy that apparently worked in the government, so trust New Era, he would know.

Obamacare was terrible, the Dems have to own that one and not deflect blame which is their go to move.

"Obamacare" (ACA) was better than what it replaced, and its better than what has been proposed, but it's not ideal.

You're confusing "Obamacare" with "American healthcare in general"

How much experience using Obamacare did you have on Vancouver Island, might I ask?