2016/2017 THE Premier League Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Sigh. I have been hearing this from Spurs fans for ages. But the fact always remains the same. You never win anything and the story of how awesome you are going to be continues.........

Odds on favourites? lol! You have by your accounts been having a wonderful year yet when games are balanced out a whopping 4 points clear of a United team that stuttered through parts of the season.


And this right there is why they are a tier 2 club. Give Arsenal a 2nd place finish and their fans will still claim the season a disaster because they expect success.
And you fail to mention the complete disaster that was Europe. But, carry on with your del boy optimism. It's endearing.

At this point we're seven clear of United and we'll see whether you win the game against City that was postponed. Maybe we'll be 7 ahead still, or maybe you cut it to 4 or 6. I wouldn't say that is a gimme at this point.

I think everyone expects success, but the fact is with Chelsea ten points ahead of us at this point, we need some help from other teams to reel them in. You guys have another game against them and maybe you can do a little better than the 4-0 beat-down they gave you last time?

And yeah, Europe was a complete mess. I do question the managerial decision to work hard and qualify for CL and then rest players. It's mind-boggling really.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think everyone expects success,

Disagree, on the basis that definitions of success differ.

I expect success from United. I'll give Mourinho this year but I expect a serious run at the title next season. Second next year will NOT be a successful season. I'm guessing City fans would say the same as would Chelsea. Arsenal fans have already let it be known that 2nd place and an early CL exit is a failure.

But then you have Spurs who seem to have no serious aspirations to win the title. Who consider a top 4 finish a success. Tell me this then? How long do you give Poch without a title? Because I get the impression that unlike Arsenal, Spurs are quite content to be a top 4 club and nothing more?

Three more seasons with no title and do we have the same sort of rumblings against him as we do against Wenger? Because, as I said last season. They blew their probably one in a lifetime chance to win the league in that you'll never get a season again where ALL of the big four crap the bed in the same year. Chelsea are back. United are heading in the right direction, City, I still don't know what way they're gonna go.

We've also got that game against Spurs at the time of year when they roll over and do their Spurs thing.

Do you expect Spurs to win the league in the near future and when should they cut Poch loose if they don't?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Disagree, on the basis that definitions of success differ.

I expect success from United. I'll give Mourinho this year but I expect a serious run at the title next season. Second next year will NOT be a successful season. I'm guessing City fans would say the same as would Chelsea. Arsenal fans have already let it be known that 2nd place and an early CL exit is a failure.

But then you have Spurs who seem to have no serious aspirations to win the title. Who consider a top 4 finish a success. Tell me this then? How long do you give Poch without a title? Because I get the impression that unlike Arsenal, Spurs are quite content to be a top 4 club and nothing more?

Three more seasons with no title and do we have the same sort of rumblings against him as we do against Wenger? Because, as I said last season. They blew their probably one in a lifetime chance to win the league in that you'll never get a season again where ALL of the big four crap the bed in the same year. Chelsea are back. United are heading in the right direction, City, I still don't know what way they're gonna go.

We've also got that game against Spurs at the time of year when they roll over and do their Spurs thing.

Do you expect Spurs to win the league in the near future and when should they cut Poch loose if they don't?

I think that they have to win and soon. This year everyone is "back" or in the running and Spurs are holding their own. If they finish strong then I think that is a very telling sign that they have learned from last year. If they bottle it and sink to 5th or 6th then its a whole other story. I think that they have an excellent shot at the FA Cup as well, and should be able to dispatch Millwall. The semis will be interesting and depending on who goes through I like our chances.

I think winning the league is tough for them in the next few years though in large part because of the new stadium build. They need to complete that and need the revenue it will generate to compete with the other big clubs, but at the same time that is a financial strain in the short-term. I only say that because I would like to see them add a pacey attacker and one who is already proven instead of a project. That isn't going to come cheap. It doesn't mean I give Pochettino a pass because I do expect an FA or Europa or something to show that they're gaining ground. But I don't know that I would be willing to say "if they don't win in the next 3 years it's time for someone new". I think that Spurs supporters know that the team has to produce though, otherwise some of these guys (Kane, Alli, Lloris among others) are going to look around. If we get to that point, Pochettino will be under fire.

I know you want to make the Wenger comparison, but the fact is there are 6 clubs (basically) battling for four positions and one will win. That wasn't really unforeseen at the beginning of the season I would say? Every team in that group has had its issues, other commitments and things like that aside from Chelsea. So while there is a lot of parity amongst those six, it's not entirely surprising that the team with no injuries and no European games is leading the way.

[Bagor]

Actually, no. This year everyone is not back. Don't delude yourself.

Arsenal are out in the wilderness at the moment. Both United and City are stuttering. Both CAN be a lot better.

This is my point. Spurs are NOT holding their own. Chelsea are back on form of a PL winning team. Spurs are 10 points off that pace yet their supporters tell themselves they are doing ok? This is exactly the level of mediocrity that I am referring to.

You say that they are not many pieces away from being odds on favorites yet you appear unbothered if they were titleless in the next three years and now say winning the league will be tough?

I don't feel like making excuses for Chelsea. I believe they are worthy of being 10 points clear. Many a team before them has won the PL whilst playing in Europe at the same time. Not an impossible feat by a long shot.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Actually, no. This year everyone is not back. Don't delude yourself.

Arsenal are out in the wilderness at the moment. Both United and City are stuttering. Both CAN be a lot better.

This is my point. Spurs are NOT holding their own. Chelsea are back on form of a PL winning team. Spurs are 10 points off that pace yet their supporters tell themselves they are doing ok? This is exactly the level of mediocrity that I am referring to.

You say that they are not many pieces away from being odds on favorites yet you appear unbothered if they were titleless in the next three years and now say winning the league will be tough?

I don't feel like making excuses for Chelsea. I believe they are worthy of being 10 points clear. Many a team before them has won the PL whilst playing in Europe at the same time. Not an impossible feat by a long shot.

You bring this up as though Spurs haven't had their issues this year though? You brush off City and United "stuttering" while clearly when we didn't have Kane at our disposal it was a significant problem, and I think that the lack of depth for Tottenham was exposed with the CL and PL.

And yeah, winning the league is tough. You need a lot of things to go right and its not just based on having a good team. I wouldn't say that I would be unbothered if they don't win, because I definitely want to see a title. I just don't think its a certainty by any stretch and to turf an excellent looking young manager might be a mistake (it's hard to say what happens over the next 3 years).

And yeah, Spurs are 10 points off the pace. That sucks. I would've liked to see a few wins along the way that ended up as draws. But there are some nice positives shaping up. We're still chasing Chelsea and while they're not losing anything it seems, it could happen. We also have a bit of cushion on 4th and 5th at this point which is nice.

I think the biggest difference is that I expect Spurs to be competitive and in the race. At this point, from a realistic perspective, that's where we should be. I want them to win, and truth be told I put money on them to win the league this year a few months ago (or maybe a little sooner). But I'm also a realist. The league has a lot of parity and even if we ran the table here and went 11-0 to close out the season it might not be enough. That's not settling though, it's just a realistic view of the league as it stands.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Slava

You bring this up as though Spurs haven't had their issues this year though? You brush off City and United "stuttering"

It was in reference to them both having new managers. See above where I said I would consider anything less than 2nd next season a failure. And I believe the same to be true for Chelsea and City. Poch has already had an advantage over the two clubs in that respect.

The way I see it is this. Since the CL went to the top four, some clubs/fans equate a top four finish with success.

I see it like this:

United/City/Chelsea. Club and fans. Anything less than a title is a failed season. Pardon given in first year of new manager.

Arsenal fans. Anything less than a title is a failed season.
Arsenal board: A top 4 finish is a success

Tottenham board and fans: A top 4 finish is a success.

I think it's best to try and shut out the 4 CL spots and remember that each year there is only one champion. Most fans want their team to be the champion. Spurs, I get the impression are content with top 4 which is a dangerous mindset to be in, imo.

[Slava]

I think is because most fans realise that to have lasting success it needs to be a fairly consistent finish in the top four. CL (like it or not) is a goal for most teams because of the financial rewards. I also think that when you can legitimately offer CL football to players, that along with money this becomes an incentive to get the best players to come and play for the club.

Pogba didn't sign to play at United to win League Cups. It's because players want to play in the CL and win titles. I think that is the same for Spurs at this point and players like Kane and Alli who will have suitors are willing to stick it out for a while, but eventually they're going to want to play for the big prizes and win.

So yeah, Spurs have to win, and soon. I couldn't say how many years they have to make it happen, but not many.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Pogba was in the CL and won a title last year at Juventus. Let's not act like he didn't come to United for the money, and more importantly for him the exposure increase so he could do a lot more branding (i.e. even more money).

[Slava]

Of course money has something to do with it, and that's part of the reason why clubs need to aim to qualify for CL in the first place. It's a big revenue generator. But do you think that Pogba would've signed for a club that had no aspirations and wasn't going to win anything? It's a combination of the two things I think, and they go hand-in-hand.

[Senator Clay Davis]

United are unique though, they could finish 6th for the next five years and still be one of the three richest clubs in the world. They are closing in on almost 80 (!!!) sponsors, which is kinda sad if you're a fan of the club since it shows where the real ambition is. But United has a ####load of fans worldwide, and unless the bottom totally falls out and they become like West Ham, they'll always be rolling in money.

[devo22]

5 game ban for Mings. Not enough IMO, but better than nothing I guess.

[d_phaneuf]

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017...chester-united

SI saying the galaxy think they have a good shot at signing Zlatan

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017...chester-united

SI saying the galaxy think they have a good shot at signing Zlatan

Well, hes already conquered England, no point in him staying there.

[devo22]

oh well. You know what they say - don't let the door hit you on the way out. Sick and tired of all this chatter, I imagine him and Raiola love this #### but there are be way more important things to focus on right now. For someone like me who thinks the badge is always bigger than the individual, this Zlatan transfer circus is getting old very quickly.

[GirlySports]

Zlatan going to ManU was always a step towards a real league like MLS.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bagor

It was in reference to them both having new managers. See above where I said I would consider anything less than 2nd next season a failure. And I believe the same to be true for Chelsea and City. Poch has already had an advantage over the two clubs in that respect.

The way I see it is this. Since the CL went to the top four, some clubs/fans equate a top four finish with success.

I see it like this:

United/City/Chelsea. Club and fans. Anything less than a title is a failed season. Pardon given in first year of new manager.

Arsenal fans. Anything less than a title is a failed season.
Arsenal board: A top 4 finish is a success

Tottenham board and fans: A top 4 finish is a success.

I think it's best to try and shut out the 4 CL spots and remember that each year there is only one champion. Most fans want their team to be the champion. Spurs, I get the impression are content with top 4 which is a dangerous mindset to be in, imo.

Looks to me as though some players would covet finishing top four!

Spoilered for size, and because I would hate to spoil the surprise of which club!

Spoiler!

[d_phaneuf]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/all-...lsey-1.2999425

this is funny, only in the stupidity of the ref

basically he was talking about some stories, kind of like the secret footballer does for the guardian, but he said a very specific thing about giving John Terry a red card vs Man City..... which only happened once
release, the first of which also appeared last week.

The referee in question, we were told, only agreed to do the interview, in which he spoke about his experience dealing with abuse from players, managers and supporters alike, “under the cover of anonymity”.
An extract: “I remember sending off John Terry in a game versus Manchester City and he knocked on my dressing room door after the game. In the end we had a pleasant discussion and he understood why I had sent him off but he still didn’t agree with it.”

smart man Mark Halsey is

[devo22]

Chelsea getting the banter going



I'm not even mad, that's amazing

[Barnet Flame]

Arsenal are bad.

Really.

Really.

Bad.

[Bagor]

Didn't see it but a really really bad 5-0 win?