Bioware founders leave Bioware and retire from the video game industry

[Mike F]

To link the sales of DA2 to Greg and Ray leaving is a huge stretch, though.

DA2 came out a year and a half ago, and was good enough to garner a sequel. On top of that, BioWare then brought out ME3, which, as was said, sold well and justified continuing the franchise.

I just don't see there being a second **** the bed episode that would have led EA to force Greg and Ray out as Blaster claims.

[Henry Fool]

Tough to say how much of a failure DA2 was from EA's perspective anyway. Only they have the numbers. They might be fine with how much it made. PC preorder numbers were probably very significant for DA2, and they can't expect the same numbers for DA3, yet they're still doing the sequel. "#### the bed" doesn't seem to be a fitting phrase - unless Blaster meant some other project.

[Burninator]

I thought that non-compete clauses can't stop you from making a living? Wouldn't one preventing them from working in the video gaming industry be doing that?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I thought that non-compete clauses can't stop you from making a living? Wouldn't one preventing them from working in the video gaming industry be doing that?

Thread derail: It's called restraint of trade, and no, I don't understand it either. My understanding in Canada is there is nothing you can do about it, but the IT industry is rife with anti-poaching and anti-hiring agreements. I know of a number of good IT guys who never got a sniff at companies not because of their skills, but because of who their current employer was. I was told they'd have to quit their job before their resume could be considered, but that if they did that they'd get an interview.

[HPLovecraft]

Seems the fan negativity over ME3 and TOR played a big part in the departure of the BioWare guys. Also, EA.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/09/2...2c0b672500002d

An ex-Bioware developer has claimed the negative fan reaction to Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars: The Old Republic led to company founders Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka leaving both Bioware and the games industry.

[ . . . ]

"The last time I met up with [Greg], I felt his exhaustion,” claimed Oster. "Punch out, eject, get the hell out", was my suggestions to him and it hit closer to the mark than I had realised. I also think the Mass Effect 3 fan reaction and the Old Republic fans' negativity was just too much.

[ . . . ]

"Ray surprised me. I had him pegged as an EA lifer," he shared. "My thought was the Ray agenda was to first usurp Frank Gibeau and then later John Riccotello as CEO.

“I'm sure the internal culture at EA had pinned the Old Republic conversion to free to play as a failure and hung that completely on Ray, so that would have hurt his upward climb. But, I figured he would fight harder. EA upper management must have been even worse than I thought."

[cDnStealth]

Again, not overly shocked. I know some people like the ME3 ending but I think it's safe to say that the majority do not. That's fine. I didn't like it but I don't agree with the way some fans chose to attack Bioware. They're people too and they've given the gaming community some amazing games and stories.

At the end of the day, they probably could have saved face by admitting that the ending was crap and promised to re-do them. Instead they chose to fall on the "creative integrity" sword which pissed off a lot of people. Bioware's choice to "expand" the ending undermined their original stance. If they actually thought their ending was good they would have never even touched it.

[Tinordi]

It is a certainty they signed non-compete clauses.

Those clauses are most likely for 5 years.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Seems the fan negativity over ME3 and TOR played a big part in the departure of the BioWare guys. Also, EA.

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/09/2...2c0b672500002d

So forced out by fans, not EA, for at least one of them. Sad for guys who brought so much good to my gaming life.

The anonymity of the internet allowing for uninhibited bite spewing is one of the big drawbacks to our connected world.

[SebC]

There is a very strong link between fan negativity towards Bioware and Bioware being bought by EA.

[Buff]

I have an old friend who worked for Bioware and EA. He left his job there this past spring. I'm not sure what his new job is, I know it is IT related but it certainly isn't making video games.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Mike F

So forced out by fans, not EA, for at least one of them. Sad for guys who brought so much good to my gaming life.

The anonymity of the internet allowing for uninhibited bite spewing is one of the big drawbacks to our connected world.

To which most was directed at EA. I think most fans understood that it wasn't Bioware which ####ed with DA2, TOR and ME3, it was EA.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

To which most was directed at EA. I think most fans understood that it wasn't Bioware which ####ed with DA2, TOR and ME3, it was EA.

You forgot Origin.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

To which most was directed at EA. I think most fans understood that it wasn't Bioware which ####ed with DA2, TOR and ME3, it was EA.

I read tons of comments on Bioware's recent games, and I have to disagree. People curse EA all the time, of course, but the negativity towards DA2 and ME3 at least was mostly directed at the developers - and in a sense that's right, because you can't possibly blame the publisher for every creative decision.

Typically the underlying story is that EA ruined Bioware, but the specific hatred is definitely directed at the developers.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I read tons of comments on Bioware's recent games, and I have to disagree. People curse EA all the time, of course, but the negativity towards DA2 and ME3 at least was mostly directed at the developers - and in a sense that's right, because you can't possibly blame the publisher for every creative decision.

Typically the underlying story is that EA ruined Bioware, but the specific hatred is definitely directed at the developers.

I think there was anger and hatred when a couple of them came out and lied - talked about how dynamic it was going to be and your choices mattered, etc, etc.

But on the whole I think people deep down knew it was EA for giving them extremely unreasonable publishing deadlines. Bioware employees came from a place where those things just didn't exist.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think there was anger and hatred when a couple of them came out and lied - talked about how dynamic it was going to be and your choices mattered, etc, etc.

But on the whole I think people deep down knew it was EA for giving them extremely unreasonable publishing deadlines. Bioware employees came from a place where those things just didn't exist.

The criticism of ME3 was almost exclusively based on the ending, the ending had nothing to do with EA, it was the developer's creative choice which they refused to change even when given more time, and no one I saw blamed EA for the ending.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think there was anger and hatred when a couple of them came out and lied - talked about how dynamic it was going to be and your choices mattered, etc, etc.

But on the whole I think people deep down knew it was EA for giving them extremely unreasonable publishing deadlines. Bioware employees came from a place where those things just didn't exist.

Not sure if ME3's schedule was any more unreasonable than ME2's. I don't see how the team was somehow unprepared in ME3's case. Things were cut like always, but you can't blame EA for the story arc or the ending. They did get a few months more than originally planned.

In DA2's case, the game undoubtedly suffered from a tight development schedule, but that doesn't excuse all the creative decisions that didn't work out.

I mean, it would be wonderful if developers had all the time they need to fully realise their vision, but as far as the criticism goes, it's usually directed at the developer.

[CaramonLS]

So Bioware gets sold to EA and their 3 major releases following that sale turn to #### and face heavy criticism.

I just dont see how the devs can take all the blame, especially with the history that EA has with gutting it's subsidiaries. Look at SWTOR, who was in charge of pvp structure, balance and maps?

Gabe Amanthshabbsbrgo was, an EA company man. Not a Bioware employee. EA firmly gutted BW and put their hands in the cookie jar.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Mike F

So forced out by fans, not EA, for at least one of them. Sad for guys who brought so much good to my gaming life.

The anonymity of the internet allowing for uninhibited bite spewing is one of the big drawbacks to our connected world.

being flat out lied to by the developers about one of the biggest game franchises of the last decade will do that. the fan reaction wouldn't have been nearly so bad had we not been led by a string with promises about decisions that matter and tailoring the story to your choices, only to have that all ripped away at the last moment. you can't design your game to get your players emotionally engaged in the story and expect them to be alright when you completely change the narrative for the final scene. i hope this serves as a warning to other developers to either deliver what they promise, or keep their mouths shut about possibilities that they can't fulfill

[3 Justin 3]

This isn't a legal forum, but aren't non-compete clauses in contracts technically illegal? Something to do with harming the economy (monopolization, etc.)

As in if the Bioware guys start up another rival studio and EA sues them over breach of contract, the Bioware Docs. can argue that EA is hurting the end consumer. They could also argue that this is their only form of occupation so denying them starting up a new studio would be to deny them of a job.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

being flat out lied to by the developers about one of the biggest game franchises of the last decade will do that. the fan reaction wouldn't have been nearly so bad had we not been led by a string with promises about decisions that matter and tailoring the story to your choices, only to have that all ripped away at the last moment. you can't design your game to get your players emotionally engaged in the story and expect them to be alright when you completely change the narrative for the final scene. i hope this serves as a warning to other developers to either deliver what they promise, or keep their mouths shut about possibilities that they can't fulfill

This is what I'm talking about. People are free to dislike the ending, but the fact that they can express their displeasure anonymously on the internet allows disappointment to turn into a tantrum in a way that would almost never happen if it were expressed in person.

I'm betting that if you met a BioWare designer in person, you'd come up with something more reasonable than "either deliver on your promises or keep your mouth shut."