Line brawl & Crazy Torts - Aftermath

[The Swedish Flame]

Originally Posted by Dion

I heard on the post game radio that all the sports networks in the States are covering the brawl that went on in Vancouver. Seeing as how the NHL is trying to grow the sport Stateside, this will be a huge black mark. Given that I suspect Torts will be made an example by Bettman and will likely be given a 10 game suspension.

I was out at the bars last night and the game wasn't on there. I was rather surprised when people I know don't follow hockey started texting me about the brawl. Some PR is better than no PR?

[newts]

Tortorella definitely more at fault here, but I don't buy this whole "Hartley can start who he wants" excuse. He was intentionally trying to stir the pot.

With recent woes at home and Burke publicly criticizing the teams size and toughness, there's a coaches message there.

I don't blame torts for lining up his troops in that situation. Hartley would do the same. But the showmanship by torts during and post the incident is ridiculous and punishable. Wouldn't be surprised if Hartley got slapped with a lesser fine.

And this rookie thing with lain is also ridiculous. 6'6 and he fights. 1st game or not, this is the nhl, there's a reason why he's there.

[Southside]

So Bieksa, an ejected player and Burrows also made their way to the Flames room during first intermission? I would imagine the league has to address that. You can't tolerate situations like that. The game has to be played on the ice, not in the alleys.

[Galakanokis]

Just a note on the dressing rooms. They are very close together, maybe 20 feet apart. It looks like Torts came down the dressing room aisle from the main hallway. And if that really is Bieksa which it she looks like it is he would have had to come through the dental/medical room as that is what that doorway is he is standing at. Torts has to receive something in the way of a suspension, the league cannot have opposing coaches/players what have you going to the other teams dressing room. Just a huge no no.

As for what happened on the ice? No biggie, minor fines if anything.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by moon

Resolute already said it in this thread or another but Hartley likely will (and should) get a fine because Westgarth had his gloves off before the puck even hit the ice.

The League wants to get rid of staged fighting and Westgarth going after Bieksa less than a second in was the clearest indication this was a staged fight.

That's an awful reason to fine a coach. Because one player dropped his gloves too soon? Happens all the time. Westgarth didn't take any cheapshots at Bieksa like Kassian did to Bouma later in the game either. There was absolutely zero intent to injure by the Flames shown here


If Hartley gets a fine it's going to be one of those $5000 dollar fines that the coach gets back at the end of the season anyways. Tortorella will be punished way more severely

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by moon

Resolute already said it in this thread or another but Hartley likely will (and should) get a fine because Westgarth had his gloves off before the puck even hit the ice.

The League wants to get rid of staged fighting and Westgarth going after Bieksa less than a second in was the clearest indication this was a staged fight.

That's not a staged fight, McGrattan - Sestito was a staged fight they talked and both agreed to fight. Westgarth sees a defenceman come in to take a faceoff assuming he's coming in to fight, Bieksa b*tching out afterwards proves it wasn't staged.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I don't have the clip from TSN but Craig Button is putting this squarely on the Flames' shoulders. He pointed at "Alberta style hockey" and didn't hide his contempt for it. I'm a little surprised. I thought Button was more of an old school thinker. I do kind of like that he is against what went down last night. Having said that...I personally loved every second of it.

When I refer to old school thinking I'm referring to P.J. Stock as an example. His take is that if you're going to break out of a slump you are going to do it most times by having a night out and pounding beers with the boys or by having a donnybrook like we saw last night. I tend to agree.

Good old Craig button the master of the grey suit, matching hair combo..
Stick to Craig's list my friend.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Originally Posted by newts

And this rookie thing with lain is also ridiculous. 6'6 and he fights. 1st game or not, this is the nhl, there's a reason why he's there.

Exactly. This is the same guy that jumped Blair Jones when he was Utica in October. Pretty sure he could have lined up next to Jones again if they were that concerned. Too much is being made of that aspect of this.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GettinIggyWithIt

Exactly. This is the same guy that jumped Blair Jones when he was Utica in October. Pretty sure he could have lined up next to Jones again if they were that concerned. Too much is being made of that aspect of this.

Also too much is being made of Bieksa "saving the rookie" on the faceoff. Like the guy didn't end up having to fight Westgarth anyways once Bieksa declined.

[moon]

Originally Posted by neo45

That's an awful reason to fine a coach. Because one player dropped his gloves too soon? Happens all the time. Westgarth didn't take any cheapshots at Bieksa like Kassian did to Bouma later in the game either. There was absolutely zero intent to injure by the Flames shown here


If Hartley gets a fine it's going to be one of those $5000 dollar fines that the coach gets back at the end of the season anyways. Tortorella will be punished way more severely

Well if it isn't a rule now it has been talked about fining coaches for staged fights at the start of games.

Westgarth was clearly the initiator of the fights as he had his gloves off before anyone. He was out there with one purpose and that was too fight. No denying that.

I love what Hartley did, loved the fights but Hartley 100% deserves a fine from how that game started and how fast Westgarth had his gloves off.

[Robo]

Really wish no one would be fined that was an awesome game last night right from the drop of the puck. And it obviously got people that dont watch hockey to tune in which isnt a bad thing

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

That's not a staged fight, McGrattan - Sestito was a staged fight they talked and both agreed to fight. Westgarth sees a defenceman come in to take a faceoff assuming he's coming in to fight, Bieksa b*tching out afterwards proves it wasn't staged.

Westgarth was fighting no matter what. He didn't wait for something to happen he was dropping his gloves and fighting.

That is staged. Just because Bieksa didn't fight him doesn't change what Westgarth did and went out to do and the NHL wants to stop things like that from happening.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by moon

Well if it isn't a rule now it has been talked about fining coaches for staged fights at the start of games.

Westgarth was clearly the initiator of the fights as he had his gloves off before anyone. He was out there with one purpose and that was too fight. No denying that.

I love what Hartley did, loved the fights but Hartley 100% deserves a fine from how that game started and how fast Westgarth had his gloves off.

[devo22]

seems like I missed a lot when I decided to go to sleep yesterday instead of watching the 1st period as I had originally planned my thoughts (pretty sure most of it has been covered though):

- I'm sure Hartley will get a fine, but I don't really agree with it. There's no rule that you can't start your fourth line, and having home-ice advantage, Tortorella could have reacted to it differently if he wanted to. He has four lines too, it doesn't have to be Sestito and his friends. Surely Hartley was baiting him, but not in a way that he wanted to have a full line brawl ... if he did, he would have put SOB out there instead of Butler, and maybe Bouma instead of Jones.

- I'm half amused, half in disbelief after hearing Tortorella say that he didn't put out the Sedins because "he doesn't want to put his players at risk". This quote is wrong on so many levels ... just look at the guys that McGrattan has fought this season: McLaren, Bordeleau, Gazdic, Barch, Bollig, McIlrath, Sestito, Bissonnette, Engelland, and Peluso. Westgarth only fought Malone. All big boys/grinders/goons. What did Tortorella think? That McGrattan and Westgarth would have jumped the Sedins? Come on. Nothing would have happened, except that McGrattan and Sestito would have fought at some other point during the game. Also, that quote is pretty funny when you have a guy like Sestito on your team who likes to jump other players for no apparent reasons.

- one more chapter in my book "Why I despise Kevin Bieksa". Stock's comments as to how this was leadership and protecting a teammate are utter BS if you ask me. Lain is a big boy, he can take care of himself and he didn't hesitate to drop the gloves against Westgarth afterwards. And of course, Bieksa refuses to drop them against Westgarth and instead chooses a different opponent. Luckily Smid kicked his ass.

- kudos to Butler standing his ground and dropping the gloves too, didn't expect that from him.

- P.J. Stock is ... I don't really know agreed with most of his points this time though.

- Tortorella's actions in the hallway were despicable. I hope he gets suspended.

- Kassian is a punk. Not really news but it can't be stressed often enough.

[liamenator]

That was a complete and utter embarrassment for both teams, and a disgraceful way to end HDiC.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Presser was boring and Torts was obviously pulled aside and told not to say anything. He only became agitated when Elliott Freidmann tried to get him to answer about why he went to the Flames locker room.

Summary:

Had to put that line up out there
Will kick himself for a long time putting Lain out there but he had to do it
He would do it again if he had to*****
He's apologized to all the guys involved in the scrum
Will not comment about the Flames hallway event
Unsure about any NHL discipline for events on/off ice
He told Sedin to take his gear off after the second and stay in the room
Felt his team stuck together for the win

***** You are forgetting the part where the little piece of snot said 'Well, I feel bad about Kellan but I put him out there, having the starting lineup in front of my face all day long, knowing this is his NHL debut and it's going to be a giant brawl.. WITH the toughest and best fighter in the NHL, because I cannot risk my ladies breaking a nail, and I don't really give a crap about Kellan anyway, so I'd do it again!

OMG.. I feel so bad for Lain AND Lain's mom and dad.. finally get to see your kid in the NHL and the coach uses him like a piece of toilet paper.

Canucks are slime. The only part I won't like about the Olympics is having to cheer for that scuzzball in net. :/

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by moon

Well if it isn't a rule now it has been talked about fining coaches for staged fights at the start of games.

Westgarth was clearly the initiator of the fights as he had his gloves off before anyone. He was out there with one purpose and that was too fight. No denying that.

I love what Hartley did, loved the fights but Hartley 100% deserves a fine from how that game started and how fast Westgarth had his gloves off.

I think that Burke is the one who orchestrated the whole affair. Not that Hartley minded doing it. But it was Burke's holla to the NHL 'Hey, look what I can do, I am in control and Calgary isn't insignificant'

I think it's brilliant.

[moon]

If Torts didn't want Lain to be out there for but thought a brawl was going to happen then why not put Kassian out in his place?

The Flames had only two real tough guys out there and Weise-Westgarth and Sestitio-McGrattan should have been able to handle them.

Richardson, Kassian, even Booth should have been fine to fight B. Jones if that was the concern.

No need for Lain to be out there if Torts is really "sad" that he had to miss the game becuase of the brawl.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by liamenator

That was a complete and utter embarrassment for both teams, and a disgraceful way to end HDiC.

No it wasn't it was awesome.

[Resolute 14]

The split opinion around the league is interesting. On the NBC pre-game, Jeremy Roenick was blaming the entire thing on Tortorella, while Milbury was after Hartley. It played out pretty much the same way as Stock vs. the panel on HNIC last night.