Only Florida has allowed more goals per game than the Flames

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Flames have the second worst save percentage in the league at .884. Devan Dubnyk et al have put up a .916 save percentage behind the vaunted Oilers defence.

As a comparison, if Flames goalies had a .916 save percentage, we would have allowed 24 less goals so far (over 27 games.)

I'm told that changing the goal differential by +6 usually means 1 extra win. Assuming the GF stay the same and your calculations are correct, this would mean 4 more wins. Eight extra points would put the Flames on pace with Minnesota, LA, and St. Louis. The failures in net this year are HUGE.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Worst defensive team in the west, and almost on par with the Panthers at 3.64 goals allowed a game.

Should Feaster be looking at trades for some defensive forwards? I don't think we can succeed without a Stephen Yelle type player or another defensive minded center.

I don't blame the stat on the goalie. Flames forwards don't backcheck like they skate for offensive chances. Something has to be done via trade IMO.

Doesn't matter.

The Captain got the offensive coach he wanted.

That's all that matters.

Cowperson, on a Hawaiian beach, feeling passive-aggressive this morning.

[moon]

Originally Posted by fredr123

If the Flames even had an NHL replacement level goaltender, forget about an average to good goalie, how many goals against could that have prevented? That's important in a short season because even with how terrible the team has played, they are still only 4 points out of the playoffs with games in hand. An extra win or two, maybe an occasional extra point in the shootout, and this team is sitting 6,7,8,9 in the conference.

This team allows so many high quality and tap in chances hard to blame the goalies for a lot of the goals this season. Goaltending has been awful but the defensive play has been equally as bad.

As for more wins I can't think of a game they lost due to goaltending this year. Sure Taylor and Macdonald have been awful but in most of those games the Flames offensively were pathetic as well and would have lost anyways.

The team is in the position they are because of overall crap play and lack of talent, not just because of the goaltending.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

What teams are solidifying playoff spots? Chicago and Anaheim (who the media was telling their fans that they were losing one of, if not both, Perry and Getzlaf this year). You must mean Vancouver who are 3 points up on 9th? I know it sucks being in a playoff race and it's much more exciting being out halfway through the season and hoping for losses, and really hoping for a #1 because, as we all know, a team can only be built by rebuilding and getting #1 picks.

And Vancouver will always be a few points up, and we'll always be a few points within striking view but we're never quite there.

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

I do not have much sorrow on it myself, it seems obvious that this team is set up to have an Edmonton style rebuild. They had a coach that was squeezing wins out of a lineup that nobody could understand how it was above .500 like MacT right before he was fired, they got a new coach in that would be so much better than the horrible old coach (re- Pat Quinn) and they are on the path for a substantial rebuild based more on the quality of the team than on Hartley to be fair, but it seems inevitable. Christ the injuries are even eerily similar, Bhulin goes down in Quinn's first year (thus the excuse most Oilers fans used that year) and Kipper goes down for us this year.

The main difference (hopefully) is that the Flames should do better on their sell off than the Oilers did when they sold off Staios for a 3rd rounder, Garbagekov for a 2nd rounder and Vishnovsky for Whitney.

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

I think you can make a case that there is another similarity with the almighty greasers we're trying so hard to avoid.

Remember their first, original rebuild (TM) with Cogliano, Gagner, Grebeshkov, Nilsson and some other scrubs? Well compare it to our bunch of first rounders Irving Nemisz Chucko Pelech - the similarities are there

I guess what I'm saying is that the more we're trying to avoid being Edmonton, the more we are like them.

How about both having "media friendly" GM's, and both giving out RFA offer sheets?

I think Feaster even said last year he made a DVD...

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Flames have the second worst save percentage in the league at .884. Devan Dubnyk et al have put up a .916 save percentage behind the vaunted Oilers defence.

As a comparison, if Flames goalies had a .916 save percentage, we would have allowed 24 less goals so far (over 27 games.)

The Oilers play way better team defence though, hard to compare the two teams goaltenders.

[Dan02]

as much as everyone is piling on our backup goaltenders, I'd just like to point out that Kipper has the worst save percentage of any of the 4 goaltenders who have dressed for the Flames this season...

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I enjoyed Simmer's comment on the broadcast last night. The camera was trained on Joey MacDonald standing on the Flames' bench. The extra attacker was on the ice for a face off in the last minute or so of the game in Dallas.

Simmer, taking a break from his usual comments on feet moving, says "[MacDonald] has done his job tonight". The graphic at the top of the screen clearly shows a 4-spot next to the Dallas Stars.

Look where the Flames' goalies are at, right now, in terms of even strength save percentage (out of 79 goalies who have made an appearance this year):

59. Danny Taylor 2 GP ESS .905
62. Joey MacDonald 10 GP ESS .897
64. Mikka Kiprusoff 12 GP ESS .895
71. Leland Irving 6 GP ESS .884

Is it team defence? Is it the lack of a single goaltender (no offence to Danny Taylor) who can consistently save at least 9/10 shots he faces at evens?

If the Flames even had an NHL replacement level goaltender, forget about an average to good goalie, how many goals against could that have prevented? That's important in a short season because even with how terrible the team has played, they are still only 4 points out of the playoffs with games in hand. An extra win or two, maybe an occasional extra point in the shootout, and this team is sitting 6,7,8,9 in the conference.

I don't believe this theory for one second.

The Flames give up high quality scoring chances. The defence backs in because the forwards hardly back check hard and when they do, they do it without a purpose.

Macdonald played great last night and still ended up with a lousy save percentage.

3 of the 4 goals he had no chance on and 2 were tap-ins. That's been happening all year. The goalies haven't been great, but they also haven't been the reason we're in 14th place.

Take a look at the fourth goal from last night. Glencross taps his stick on the ice to make the Stars' player think he's being pressured but then he turns away leaving Eriksson wide open for a tap-in.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...,2,424&lang=en

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I don't believe this theory for one second.

The Flames give up high quality scoring chances. The defence backs in because the forwards hardly back check hard and when they do, they do it without a purpose.

Macdonald played great last night and still ended up with a lousy save percentage.

3 of the 4 goals he had no chance on and 2 were tap-ins. That's been happening all year. The goalies haven't been great, but they also haven't been the reason we're in 14th place.

Take a look at the fourth goal from last night. Glencross taps his stick on the ice to make the Stars' player think he's being pressured but then he turns away leaving Eriksson wide open for a tap-in.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...,2,424&lang=en

Him and Stajan play a little game of "Don't got it!"

It's why Gio and Sarich etc look so bad coming off their side to take away the centre lane so often. There is no centre support for that third forward/defender coming down the centre lane.

The Nystrom goal, the only player that is in position as the goal goes in is Brodie. Everyone else has skated by the play and turned up ice, even Bouwmeester doesn't bother to stop in front of the net and take a man, he just glides by.

The first erickson goal is a classic flames defensive breakdown.

Wideman starts it by crossing over and then trying to go behind the net, he's late to the play and instructs Backlund to get to the half-wall to cover Wideman's man (which will never work when split second decisions mean pucks in the net). Flames start running around because Dennis "reggie dunlop player coach" wideman is directing traffic and before you know it, no one is covering anyone and Erickson has a wide open net.

Everyone is doing their jobs until wideman decides it's not worth it to skate, better to stand around.

[hurtin_albertan]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I don't believe this theory for one second.

The Flames give up high quality scoring chances. The defence backs in because the forwards hardly back check hard and when they do, they do it without a purpose.

Macdonald played great last night and still ended up with a lousy save percentage.

3 of the 4 goals he had no chance on and 2 were tap-ins. That's been happening all year. The goalies haven't been great, but they also haven't been the reason we're in 14th place.

Take a look at the fourth goal from last night. Glencross taps his stick on the ice to make the Stars' player think he's being pressured but then he turns away leaving Eriksson wide open for a tap-in.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...,2,424&lang=en

I've seen Glencross taking heat for that play a few times today, and while I understand the sentiment that he could have done more, his responsibility as a winger and the fourth guy into the play is definitely up high as opposed to down low. The way I saw it Stajan was there to cover up down low so Glencross tapped his stick on the ice to try to fool the Stars player into making an errant drop pass, and then curls out to the boards as he's anticipating Stajan getting to the puck and needing immediate help getting rid of it. In hindsight Stajan really should have been focused on tying up the forward who recieved the pass rather than trying to intercept it, as he didn't get enough of it and poked the puck right onto the Stars player's stick.

The alternative here is that Glencross comes right in on the forward along with Stajan which probably would have prevented that scoring chance, but then his point man is WIDE open should the puck make it back there. You often hear analysts talk about teams running around in their own zone becoming "puck focused", which is exactly what ensues most of the time when a winger goes this route - you've got both defensemen, the center, and a winger down low or in front of the net, and coverages become completely lost. If the point man becomes wide open and puts a shot in through the massive screen in front we would be blasting Glencross for abandoning his assignment.

[wingmaker]

I don't know. I think goaltending has to shoulder a good portion of the blame, here. Usually I have been a big defender of Kipper and pointing to the team when his stats are less than stellar. But those stats are ridiculous. It has to be a combo. The flames are very weak defensively at times AND goaltenders are letting them down at times, as well. If you look at some of the years Kipper's stats were less than stellar, you can see what it looks like when you have good goaltending with bad team defence. But when four goalies cannot even maintain a .900 save percentage, this is evidence of a bad defensive team that is not getting good goaltending. You can't expect the players to be in position every time, especially not on a team like Calgary. At some point, the goaltender has to come up with some saves. The two things exacerbate each other, undermining the confidence of everyone. Players don't trust the goaltending, and goaltenders don't trust players to help them out.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by hurtin_albertan

I've seen Glencross taking heat for that play a few times today, and while I understand the sentiment that he could have done more, his responsibility as a winger and the fourth guy into the play is definitely up high as opposed to down low. The way I saw it Stajan was there to cover up down low so Glencross tapped his stick on the ice to try to fool the Stars player into making an errant drop pass, and then curls out to the boards as he's anticipating Stajan getting to the puck and needing immediate help getting rid of it. In hindsight Stajan really should have been focused on tying up the forward who recieved the pass rather than trying to intercept it, as he didn't get enough of it and poked the puck right onto the Stars player's stick.

The alternative here is that Glencross comes right in on the forward along with Stajan which probably would have prevented that scoring chance, but then his point man is WIDE open should the puck make it back there. You often hear analysts talk about teams running around in their own zone becoming "puck focused", which is exactly what ensues most of the time when a winger goes this route - you've got both defensemen, the center, and a winger down low or in front of the net, and coverages become completely lost. If the point man becomes wide open and puts a shot in through the massive screen in front we would be blasting Glencross for abandoning his assignment.

As the first forward out of the offensive zone (aka, the first forward back pressuring defensively), his job, no matter what position he plays, is to take the opposition player occupying the centre lane. His defensemen will play a zone against each player coming down the wall.

He is ahead of Stajan as the play breaks through the neutral zone. It's Glencross slowing down and Stajan continuing to hustle that has them in the same position at the top of the faceoff circles.

Stajan also slows down at that point, but that is a miscommunication between the players. Stajan sees Glencross is ahead of him and assumes he'll take the centre position, so Stajan holds up a bit in order to not blow by the wing responsibility. It's the moment where they are both gliding where the separation takes place and where the chance becomes a quality one because it's a 3-2 down low instead of a 3-2 with significant back pressure or a 3-3.

[Joborule]

A good defense and good goaltender go hand in hand. With the way this team has played in front of the netminders, it would take a veznia performance to keep the GAA at <= 2. Any goalie is gonna have a tough time when the rebounds aren't being cleared out and opposing offenses are overpowering the defense and getting the puck to prime spots.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by hurtin_albertan

I've seen Glencross taking heat for that play a few times today, and while I understand the sentiment that he could have done more, his responsibility as a winger and the fourth guy into the play is definitely up high as opposed to down low. The way I saw it Stajan was there to cover up down low so Glencross tapped his stick on the ice to try to fool the Stars player into making an errant drop pass, and then curls out to the boards as he's anticipating Stajan getting to the puck and needing immediate help getting rid of it. In hindsight Stajan really should have been focused on tying up the forward who recieved the pass rather than trying to intercept it, as he didn't get enough of it and poked the puck right onto the Stars player's stick.

The alternative here is that Glencross comes right in on the forward along with Stajan which probably would have prevented that scoring chance, but then his point man is WIDE open should the puck make it back there. You often hear analysts talk about teams running around in their own zone becoming "puck focused", which is exactly what ensues most of the time when a winger goes this route - you've got both defensemen, the center, and a winger down low or in front of the net, and coverages become completely lost. If the point man becomes wide open and puts a shot in through the massive screen in front we would be blasting Glencross for abandoning his assignment.

Glencross and Stajan enter the zone at the same time, but Glencross enters on the strong side. In that case, he should be the one helping down low as he is closer to the play while Stajan maintains high for the trailer. Either way, it's a play that requires communication between Stajan/Glencross that clearly doesn't happen. And neither guy puts in a decent backcheck - Glencross is terrible, but Stajan isn't moving his legs either.

Even if Glencross isn't at fault like you claim and shouldn't have to cover the low man, he doesn't maintain his position high in the zone to cover a trailer. He lazily peels off the other direction hoping that someone can chip the puck the other way for a counter-attack. He doesn't do anything right on the play at all.

[Wronskian]

Hard to pin this solely on the goalies, the defensive coverage has been abysmal this year. Just look at the breakdown of shot locations last night. Dallas had the majority of their shots within a 15 foot radius of the goal. I blame the D, which is ironic considering that we have the 6th highest defence payroll league wide.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

Hard to pin this solely on the goalies.

Team game... nothing can be blamed solely on one part of the team. Having said that IMO it's largely a failure on the part of the goaltending. The team allows 28.1 shots against per game... that ties them with Vancouver for 11th in the league not exceptional but fair. Our goalies (Danny Taylor's two games aside) are all rocking sv% under .900. We have the worst goaltending in the league right now besides maybe Florida.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Parallex

We have the worst goaltending in the league right now besides maybe Florida.

No we don't. The Flames give up 10 bell chances on a consistent basis that inevitably end up in the back of the net. No goalie can make up for the Flames players standing around watching the play.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by moon

This team allows so many high quality and tap in chances hard to blame the goalies for a lot of the goals this season. Goaltending has been awful but the defensive play has been equally as bad.

As for more wins I can't think of a game they lost due to goaltending this year. Sure Taylor and Macdonald have been awful but in most of those games the Flames offensively were pathetic as well and would have lost anyways.

The team is in the position they are because of overall crap play and lack of talent, not just because of the goaltending.

There is a lot of blame to go around as Kipper was definately the reason the Flames lost at home in game five against the Avalanche. Also he was also a major contributor in the game two of the season loss against the Ducks. Goaltending has been as bad as it's been since pre-Kipper Calgary Flames so I don't think the goaltenders come out of this mess clean as they are part of the problem as much as the poor defensive zone play. Each goaltender has had a moment or two when they have looked good but for the most part none of them have been able to close the door on opponents on a consistent basis.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by hurtin_albertan

I've seen Glencross taking heat for that play a few times today, and while I understand the sentiment that he could have done more, his responsibility as a winger and the fourth guy into the play is definitely up high as opposed to down low. The way I saw it Stajan was there to cover up down low so Glencross tapped his stick on the ice to try to fool the Stars player into making an errant drop pass, and then curls out to the boards as he's anticipating Stajan getting to the puck and needing immediate help getting rid of it. In hindsight Stajan really should have been focused on tying up the forward who recieved the pass rather than trying to intercept it, as he didn't get enough of it and poked the puck right onto the Stars player's stick.

The alternative here is that Glencross comes right in on the forward along with Stajan which probably would have prevented that scoring chance, but then his point man is WIDE open should the puck make it back there. You often hear analysts talk about teams running around in their own zone becoming "puck focused", which is exactly what ensues most of the time when a winger goes this route - you've got both defensemen, the center, and a winger down low or in front of the net, and coverages become completely lost. If the point man becomes wide open and puts a shot in through the massive screen in front we would be blasting Glencross for abandoning his assignment.

Incorrect - in that situation you leave the point open. So what if the puck gets back there for an open shot - better to give that shot up from distance than an easy tap in.

It was a typical play by Glencross which is what Flames forwards do this year - a street hockey play where you just wait for the defense to somehow get the puck back and throw it up to you for another offensive rush.

Other teams must love playing the Flames - almost every goal scored on them is an easy tap-in.

Remember how in 2006 in order to score on Calgary you basically needed to get a lucky point shot through that got tipped in front. Things have changed.

[hurtin_albertan]

Thanks for the corrections guys, I will admit that my extent of the replay was the one and only I saw live on Sportsnet and they only showed it from the blueline in, so it appeared to me that Stajan was into the zone down the middle before Glencross.

My interpretation of the peel off by Glencross was more that he anticipated Stajan breaking up the play and got himself into position for an outlet as a winger on the boards, and less that he was being lazy.

[Brannigans Law]

Wait, hang on. Hold up a second.

Am I to believe that we give up high quality scoring chances than Edmonton? Columbus? Really? Really? Our goaltending (including Kipper--but he's aging so I cut him slack) has been atrocious this year. Just laying this at the feet of everyone but the goaltenders is an excuse. Edmontons team defense is a complete joke... suggesting that we give up that many more juicy scoring chances is farcical.