Now, most of those probably are not politically noteworthy, but still, if Scotland manages to put the idea of secession back on the list of acceptable topics, things could get interesting. (Some have argued that one reason why Europeans states are generally not in support of Kurdistan is because they just really, really don't want to start talking about borders drawn in the imperialist era that don't follow ethnic lines...)
The most interesting situations to follow would be I think Spain (Catalonia and Basque Country) and Italy (Northern Italy, Venice and South Tyrol (which wants to join Austria)).
One interesting thing here is also that pro-independence parties tend to lean a good distance either to right or left of the what ever the local political center is. If the independence movements start to get traction, they could alter political landscapes significantly. (Which many think is ripe for change anyway.)
In that light, it's not hard to predict that most current governments in Europe will not show any sympathy to the Scottish independence movement. Joining the European trade unions or EU for example could turn out to be "surprisingly" difficult.
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^
The Spanish have already said they won't support Scotland's bid to get into the EU. Exactly because they don't want to give hope to the Basque separatist movement.
The people of Wales, Cornwall, Britanny, and the Basque Country are all related and considered the original inhabitants of (western) Europe. They all have some desire for independence. Looking at that map there would be quite the mess if all nationalities redid their borders. At another level, self determination should be something to be strived for.
Quebec is nothing like Scotland. Scotland is more akin to Alberta. (Oil & Gas royalty wealth, different mindset of public, conservative).
Quebec would be like Wales, poor, useless and speak another launguage (try having an old lady speak Welsh to you...yikes).
Interesting comment and these are some things I didn't know (at least as far as Scotland's assets, but I also don't agree that Quebec by itself would be poor, only poorer.)
So, you are saying, the results of this will have no effect on the Quebec movement?
One thing the surge of the 'yes' vote in Scotland might do is create a need for national governments to not get caught with their pants down the way UK government was. After all, independence is a sliding scale, not a binary thing, and a lot of options can be offered to areas wanting more autonomy.
I guess you could also argue that with the introduction of EU, the national governments are slowly becoming just middle management anyway.
And of course there's also an increasing amount of people who consider themselves to be as much Europeans as they are of any one nationality.
This will have repercussions for Quebec if it goes through and becomes a success. Ideas like this spread....
People said the same thing when the Kosovo was created.
I love French Canada and would hate to see them separate, but if it ever did happen, I hope that both parties would make it as easy and seamless as possible.
Having said that, when I go to Quebec (and I do spend a fair bit of time there as I have in-laws there), I don't get the sense that independence is on the upswing at all. Quebec is becoming increasingly multi-cultural and most young people seem to be feeling more connected to Canada as a whole. When I was in Quebec City last month, I was surprised at how many Canadian flags I saw on private properties. A lot of people who vote for the PQ and Bloc, do so simply because they feel they are the best parties to promote their provincial interests on a federal level and not because the really want to separate. Granted, some charismatic snake oil salesman can always come to power again and try selling it. In fact, it likely will happen again at some point, but IMO the Scotland thing won't be the reason.
Having said that, I think nation states as we know them are on the way out and in a few generations, they will be a relic of the past. Not to get all "New World Order" and stuff, but it's going to happen.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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Quebec is nothing like Scotland. Scotland is more akin to Alberta. (Oil & Gas royalty wealth, different mindset of public, conservative).
Quebec would be like Wales, poor, useless and speak another launguage (try having an old lady speak Welsh to you...yikes).
What?
Scotland is neither rich nor conservative - very socialist, and pretty entitled, IMO.
But as a Scot, with plenty of relatives there, I am all for the independence despite how bad it might be for the economy in the short term. I think in the long run, the independence will do them good. The Scots are a very proud people.
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Having said that, I think nation states as we know them are on the way out and in a few generations, they will be a relic of the past. Not to get all "New World Order" and stuff, but it's going to happen.
I'm not sure they're on their way out, but nationalism in itself has surely been changing.
That said, if Russia leads Europe down a new path of political, financial and armed conflicts, like it seems to be set on doing, that could re-ignite a lot of nationalistic passion.
Politicians around Europe might also realize that the good old fashioned nationalism they've been moving away from in their love for EU actually serves a purpose in protecting their countries from separatist movements.
Did you know that it's been suggested that Scotland could be a new Nordic country?
I have to say, that tickles my fancy in a completely non-rational way
Doesn't even look that silly on the map. The distance between Edinburgh and Copenhagen or Oslo isn't much different from the distance from Helsinki to Copenhagen or Oslo.
Did you know that it's been suggested that Scotland could be a new Nordic country?
I have to say, that tickles my fancy in a completely non-rational way
Doesn't even look that silly on the map. The distance between Edinburgh and Copenhagen or Oslo isn't much different from the distance from Helsinki to Copenhagen or Oslo.
Wasn't Scotland in fact colonized by Norse before England took control of the Ilses?
I have never been to Scotland, so I don't know if that plays into their national psyche at all, but it doesn't look out of place.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
The Guardian ran a fascinating relevant poll today.
Quote:
Will a new royal baby save the union?
Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge are expecting a second child. With the referendum for an independent Scotland on a knife-edge, is this the news the no campaign desperately needs?
Hopefully this does not turn ugly... the Orange Order from Northern Ireland are staging a big march through Edinburgh this weekend with quite a lot of them coming into the country, these guys are considered bigots by a lot of average folks and their marches often end in violence. Definitely not a group that the No campaign is going to want to identify with to win over the average person.
