What will Sam Bennett get?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

2) I think Bennett is the type of player where the organization can afford to gamble on a long term contract. Through friends connected to flames players, I continue to hear that many continue to view Bennett as the most talented forward in the organization and among the most disciplined.

Well, Im not sure who is whispering in your ear, but JG's Lady Byng says hes more disciplined and I certainly thought a couple times last season about Sam getting boned by the refs on some bad calls, but he certainly is not the most disciplined.

I cant comment on the most talented part as im not in the room talking to the guys when they are saying "Sam is the most talented player on this team"..
Can you elaborate on how you came across this info?

To expand on this line of thinking, I am having troubles seeing the Gilmour comparison that everyone was raving about when it came to Bennett as well.

Im not knocking the guy, im knocking the comments. I really do like Bennett and I hope he figures it out.. But the Gilmour stuff and most talented? Where is there any evidence of this? Enlighten me, please.

[Moneyhands23]

I feel that the longer this goes without a signing the longer the contract will be. I have a feeling that BT is looking for one of those 4.5x6 deals.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A long term deal with Bennett would be terrific, but as has been pointed out numerous times this is almost certainly not going to happen. As badly as the Flames want to lock Bennett in for six or more years his agent will not cooperate.

A two or three year deal is what will happen because that is the most Bennett will want to commit to in order to maximize his own earning potential.

To play devils advocate say Bennett signs a 2 year at 2.5/per, what do you think Bennett could be hoping to get for an aav in his next contract?

I ran some numbers and if he signs a 2 year 2.5/per and then hits biggish and signs 6.25/per in his next contract - that would be equivalent money over the course of:

6x5
7x5.2
8x5.3

Bennett may be just as well off going for this 6 or 7 year option then a cheap bridge. Also gets him to UFA younger/sooner.

[Samonadreau]

^further to this point. Using a base 2x2.5 bridge and the the following next aav would be equivalent to:

Next contract 6aav
6x4.8
7x5

5.5aav
6x4.5
7x4.65

5aav
6x4.15
7x4.3

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A long term deal with Bennett would be terrific, but as has been pointed out numerous times this is almost certainly not going to happen. As badly as the Flames want to lock Bennett in for six or more years his agent will not cooperate.

A two or three year deal is what will happen because that is the most Bennett will want to commit to in order to maximize his own earning potential.

But, I'm not saying the flames should try and get Bennett on the cheap.

Instead, I'm suggesting his next 2 years are going to be at pretty low pay for Bennett relative to his next 6 years if her performs as expected. But the next two years also comes during a period where the flames have excess cap space. That creates a large incentive to go long-term with Bennett to optimize cap space for the organization.

In other words signing Bennett long-term and paying Bennett fairly aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

I remember making this exact point with Backlund a few years ago - rather than sign him for 3 years at $3.5m and then re-signing him for another 3 years at $6m+, why not sign him for 6 years at $5m right at the beginning in order to better manage the cap.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You mean they would be pointing to the period of 23 Dec to 12 Jan when Brouwer was sidelined with a hand injury? Bennett scored one goal in that nine game stretch.


So, the Flames would be the ones pointing out that when Bennett and Brouwer played primarily together before Brouwer's 23 Dec hand injury that both players were on a 40-point pace?


You could be right. Although it may turn out that the difference does not follow the same direction as your opinion.

Actually, no, they would be pointing out the stats reflected in this post here:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er#post6319546

From Supermatt18:

Bennett W/ Brouwer:

TOI: 376:45 minutes
GF%: 42.9
Sh%: 7.74%
Sv:% .921
CF%: 44.4%

Bennett W/Out Brouwer:
TOI: 604.42 minutes
GF%: 35.7
Sh%: 5.45%
Sv:% .892
CF%: 51.7%

Bennett 15/16
TOI: 970.05 minutes
GF%: 48.72
Sh%: 8.44%
Sv:% .916
CF%: 48.78%

Brouwer was an utter and complete anchor on Bennett's line, reducing bennett's production and apparent value.

When i look at this stat, my mind thinks Bennett will be getting more than $3 Million a year.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Well, Im not sure who is whispering in your ear, but JG's Lady Byng says hes more disciplined and I certainly thought a couple times last season about Sam getting boned by the refs on some bad calls, but he certainly is not the most disciplined.

Enlighten me, please.

Referring to discipline off the ice. Just friends that have hung out with the core of young forwards. The feedback is that relatively speaking Bennett is a lot more focused on improving his craft and has a really good head on his shoulders. Super driven to be better.

In regards to talent level, its much the same sources. I remember having conversations with friends who are close to the team. And the feeling among a number of veterans on the team was that Bennett - once he figures his game out - has the potential to be the best forward on the current roster because of his mix of tenacity, raw talent level, hockey IQ, and ability to do things at speed. Now granted - I'm a bit skeptical too, because its been 2 full seasons, and we've seen glimpses of this at best.

But, if thats the view within the organization - that Bennett is super talented, dedicated and driven - then there might be a high level of conviction that the player will figure it out and become a star. And if this is the case, then the risks around the flames paying for future potential today is a lot lower than it would otherwise be if Bennett's ceiling was lower or if Bennett didnt have a strong work ethic.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Actually, no, they would be pointing out the stats reflected in this post here:



http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...er#post6319546



From Supermatt18:







Brouwer was an utter and complete anchor on Bennett's line, reducing bennett's production and apparent value.



When i look at this stat, my mind thinks Bennett will be getting more than $3 Million a year.

As with all statistics there are appropriate CONTEXTS in which they ought to be viewed. In this case Brouwer's injury should be a major factor in assessing the value of the cumulative numbers.

In short, I don't believe Brouwer will factor in at all in Bennett's contract negotiation, because the dramatic difference in how they both played prior to and after his hand injury obscures the whole picture.

Bennett's number on a bridge deal will be in the range of $2.5 m, and this figure has nothing to do with Troy Brouwer.

[killer_carlson]

I guess that is where we differ.

I think Brouwer was a terrible disappointment in his performance last season in its entirety. I think he failed to deliver on his on ice performance, even his apparent grit that he was supposed to bring. And there are stats to prove that his performance adversely affected teammates.

And if I was in Bennett's camp i'd most certainly be using that in the contract negotiations. Put Bennett with any other winger and he is a better player. Bennett should not lose money on his next contract because Brouwer was so bad.

It's part of the negotiations and the job of the agent to raise it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Referring to discipline off the ice. Just friends that have hung out with the core of young forwards. The feedback is that relatively speaking Bennett is a lot more focused on improving his craft and has a really good head on his shoulders. Super driven to be better.

In regards to talent level, its much the same sources. I remember having conversations with friends who are close to the team. And the feeling among a number of veterans on the team was that Bennett - once he figures his game out - has the potential to be the best forward on the current roster because of his mix of tenacity, raw talent level, hockey IQ, and ability to do things at speed. Now granted - I'm a bit skeptical too, because its been 2 full seasons, and we've seen glimpses of this at best.

But, if thats the view within the organization - that Bennett is super talented, dedicated and driven - then there might be a high level of conviction that the player will figure it out and become a star. And if this is the case, then the risks around the flames paying for future potential today is a lot lower than it would otherwise be if Bennett's ceiling was lower or if Bennett didnt have a strong work ethic.

This last paragraph is so key, and it's the part of the player into which it's difficult as a fan to have visibility.

[GranteedEV]

Bennett will be the Captain when Giordano hangs them up.

[sureLoss]

Has Boyd -err Bennett- signed yet?

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Has Boyd -err Bennett- signed yet?

Bennett doesn't fail enough breakaways to be compared to Boyd.

[Heavy Jack]

3 x 3 seems fair to me and would take some pressure of him at the same time.

From the sounds of it too it seems like they are committed to having him at centre which means he will he anchoring the 3rd line.

I know Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik is all but set to start as the second line but I still feel a combo of Tkachuk - Bennett - Ferland is almost too inticing not to at least try.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Versteeg
Tkachuk - Bennett - Ferland
Brouwer - Backlund - Frolik
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar
So many interesting combos to think off... October needs to hurry up.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Gaudreau - Monahan - Versteeg
Tkachuk - Bennett - Ferland
Brouwer - Backlund - Frolik
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar
So many interesting combos to think off... October needs to hurry up.

Don't think Versteeg compliments the 1st line very well. Gaudreau has trouble winning board battles and as such really needs a powerforward on his opposite wing to win board battles, drive the net and screen the goalie. This is why Ferland was such a good fit on the line. I really think one of Ferland or Tkachuk has to be opposite Gaudreau in order to compliment his weaknesses and maximize that line. Versteeg is too similar to Gaudreau in style. A small, skilled winger who struggles to win physical battles. The line as you have it would always lose the puck on the cycle and lacks a netfront presence. No one would be able to retrieve a dump in or control the puck along the boards.

We can't afford to have both our skilled powerforwards on the same line. Tkachuk and Ferland need to play that role on different lines and one of them has to be with Gaudreau.

[1qqaaz]

I agree. While both Gaudreau and Versteeg have skill, the top line would struggle on the boards and in front of the next. Certain other lines in the conference would probably be able to completely shut them down. However, Gaudreau's best season came playing with Hudler, so maybe a skill line is not out of the question. That said, Hudler was more willing to go to the dirty areas, and he was a lot more durable.

In an ideal world, Tkachuk could play on the top line. He would have the skill to make plays, while being physical enough to win battles. His play style may also be more consistent/sustainable than Ferland's. I think Versteeg would do fine on the second line with Frolik and Backlund. I could also see Ferland succeeding on the second line, since he could provide another dynamic.

If they decide to play Bennett on the wing, he could also be a decent second line option.
It'll be interesting to see which lines succeed in the coming year.
I would not be opposed to the signing of a 40+ point free agent, just for some extra depth in the case of injuries. As long as it's only 1 year. Don't really care about what the cap is.

[Heavy Jack]

Totally agree with the above posts, a lot of why I posted that version of line-up was based around imagining just the sheer nightmare a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Ferland would cause the opposition. I had Brouwer riding shotgun originally before putting Versteeg there because well it's Brouwer lol.

I do still believe though Tkachuk and Bennett need to play together as painful as it is to break up the MMM line; Bennett deserves to play with a Tkachuk type player and it would make him more of a threat offensively IMO.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Versteeg - Backlund - Frolik
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lazar
Stajan - Jankowski - Brouwer

Better mix here... really regretting the Brouwer signing.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Referring to discipline off the ice. Just friends that have hung out with the core of young forwards. The feedback is that relatively speaking Bennett is a lot more focused on improving his craft and has a really good head on his shoulders. Super driven to be better.

In regards to talent level, its much the same sources. I remember having conversations with friends who are close to the team. And the feeling among a number of veterans on the team was that Bennett - once he figures his game out - has the potential to be the best forward on the current roster because of his mix of tenacity, raw talent level, hockey IQ, and ability to do things at speed. Now granted - I'm a bit skeptical too, because its been 2 full seasons, and we've seen glimpses of this at best.

But, if thats the view within the organization - that Bennett is super talented, dedicated and driven - then there might be a high level of conviction that the player will figure it out and become a star. And if this is the case, then the risks around the flames paying for future potential today is a lot lower than it would otherwise be if Bennett's ceiling was lower or if Bennett didnt have a strong work ethic.

assuming this is true, people shouldn't hope for a cheap 3 years deal.
If Bennett is dedicated and driven, why would he sign for that 3rd year when he knows he'll our perform his contract before then?

[transplant99]

I'm given to believe that negotiations havent gone exactly smooth between the player/agent and the team.

This thing could last well into late September and even into the regular season if someone doesn't blink.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Totally agree with the above posts, a lot of why I posted that version of line-up was based around imagining just the sheer nightmare a line of Tkachuk - Bennett - Ferland would cause the opposition. I had Brouwer riding shotgun originally before putting Versteeg there because well it's Brouwer lol.

I do still believe though Tkachuk and Bennett need to play together as painful as it is to break up the MMM line; Bennett deserves to play with a Tkachuk type player and it would make him more of a threat offensively IMO.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Versteeg - Backlund - Frolik
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lazar
Stajan - Jankowski - Brouwer

Better mix here... really regretting the Brouwer signing.

Three small changes I would make...

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Frolik - Backlund - Brouwer
Tkachuk - Bennett - Versteeg
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar

(Stajan and Jankowski being interchangable)