Westworld: New original HBO series

[Fuzz]

Jeez, and I thought Hannibal Lecter was a bad dude.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

This show I tell ya.

So amazing.

[FlameOn]

Something tells me the whole board member visit was a setup for Theresa to go down to that room. "Blood sacrifice" quote is very telling. The writers are very keen on using the same quotes to signify things.

[polak]

Wow that was dark. This show is just too good.

[Finger Cookin]

Tonight's episode title was Trompe L'Oeil. Which has to do with optical illusions and forced perspective. Definitely a hint to what the episode would hold. So what are the next upcoming episodes called?

Next week is Trace Decay. Which has to do with theories behind memory loss and brain chemistry.

Episode 9 is called The Well-Tempered Clavier. A clavier is a keyboard instrument, and The Well-Tempered Clavier is a composition by Bach "...for the profit and use of musical youth desirous of learning, and especially for the pastime of those already skilled in this study". It suggests something to do with the MIB I think, who is "skilled in the study" of the park and its workings. Maybe he finds something to do with Arnold?

The final episode is called The Bicameral Mind. This alludes to a psychological theory presented in the 70s, namely that the human mind once separated cognitive functions into two parts: one part of the brain speaks, while the other listen and obeys. Some detail from the wikipedia entry on bicameralism:

...ancient people in the bicameral state of mind would have experienced the world in a manner that has some similarities to that of a schizophrenic. Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands and obey without question: one would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se."

This sounds a lot like how the young Ford host described hearing Arnold's voice before he killed his dog. And how Bernard responded to Ford tonight.

The article also notes that the theory proposed that "a shift from bicameralism marked the beginning of introspection and consciousness as we know it today." So, the dawn of the AI consciousness. Aware hosts. Maeve.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

The final episode is called The Bicameral Mind. This alludes to a psychological theory presented in the 70s, namely that the human mind once separated cognitive functions into two parts: one part of the brain speaks, while the other listen and obeys. Some detail from the wikipedia entry on bicameralism:This sounds a lot like how the young Ford host described hearing Arnold's voice before he killed his dog. And how Bernard responded to Ford tonight.

The article also notes that the theory proposed that "a shift from bicameralism marked the beginning of introspection and consciousness as we know it today." So, the dawn of the AI consciousness. Aware hosts. Maeve.

Ford and Bernard spoke about the bicameral mind when they had their discussion about Arnold a few weeks back. Ford said that Arnold believed they could give the hosts a "voice of God" in their minds that would slowly be replaced as the host's own thoughts began to take over.

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Something tells me the whole board member visit was a setup for Theresa to go down to that room. "Blood sacrifice" quote is very telling. The writers are very keen on using the same quotes to signify things.

I took that as Ford's way of telling her he is aware of everything that happens in the park (and control center) and he saw through the little skit they had done with Clementine. It was similar to a couple of weeks ago, when he had dinner with Theresa and they sat at the exact same table her family had sat at when they visited the park when she was a girl.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I may be way off base but I have this feeling that there's a twist and some of the people that are being represented as humans in the show may in fact be machine. I have this feeling Bernard is in fact a machine but like the other robots is totally unaware and that the real game is deeper than what's in the theme park. If you are Dr. Ford the best way to ensure that you have control is to surround yourself by your own robot creations.

Wiser clap.

You nailed it. I didn't see that coming till he said "What door?".

That was sinister by Hannibal Ford.

[Fuzz]

It adds some interest to why Bernard was interviewing Delores, apparently in secret. He thinks he is human, and is watching as Delores evolves. Now the revelations from those conversations apply to him as well. The question is will Ford erase the interaction and knowledge that he is a robot, or will Bernard go forward fully aware?

[Cappy]

While the Bernard = robot theory was guessed by many, i think they did such a great job of both subtly in the foreshadowing as well as the ultimate reveal.

If there are any other big reveals (hint, hint) I would be OK if the execution was that good.

[polak]

It looked like Bernard couldn't comprehend the fact that he was a robot, which is inline with Ford saying they're programmed to not be able to understand things that can hurt them. I'm guessing he'll forget this exchange and then have his own flashbacks?

It's interesting that Bernard couldn't comprehend that he was a host but Maeve got over it quite quickly. Her monologue about death was probably the highlight of the episode for me and that's saying something!

I also am now agreeing with the timeline theory as it seemed to just hit you over the head this episode with Will starting to become crazy over the park. Still not really a fan of it being kept as a twist but o'well. I think that means that Bernards conversations with Delores are actually Arnold before his death. Guess that's why they had to keep the timelines secret.

[Fuzz]

Could be 2018 until we see season 2.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/11/14/13...season-2-renew

Ugh.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

That's not that bad depending on the premiere date.

Considering this didn't premiere until October it could only be a 3 month delay if it came out in January.

If they pushed it all the way until Oct 2018, that would suck.

[zamler]

I guess it's just me but I found that episode about as subtle as a sledgehammer. The Dolores storyline is going nowhere (with cringe worthy dialog) and why can a train car be riddled with bullets and no humans touched. Don't get me wrong the show is still great but those things really pull me out of the immersion.

[polak]

Originally Posted by zamler

I guess it's just me but I found that episode about as subtle as a sledgehammer. The Dolores storyline is going nowhere (with cringe worthy dialog) and why can a train car be riddled with bullets and no humans touched. Don't get me wrong the show is still great but those things really pull me out of the immersion.

William is way outside of the part of the park where normal guests venture, he was probably the only human on the train.

As for that story line, I think that episode was really meant to hammer in how William is starting to be taken over by the park.

Frankly, the Ford and the Maeve story lines are far more interesting. I'm guessing Dolores will be the key to Arnolds disappearance, which will leave William confused/angry and will set him on the MiB path to finding Arnold.

Whatever the case, the cliffhanger that we are guaranteed to be left with after the season finale is going to be brutal if there's a 2 year wait....

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It adds some interest to why Bernard was interviewing Delores, apparently in secret. He thinks he is human, and is watching as Delores evolves. Now the revelations from those conversations apply to him as well. The question is will Ford erase the interaction and knowledge that he is a robot, or will Bernard go forward fully aware?

Those scenes are set in the same bunker where Theresa is murdered by Ford, so they likely happened a long time ago. There is a fan theory that Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, so those scenes are 35+ years ago and you're actually looking at Arnold interacting with Delores, possibly even before the park opened.

Even if Bernard is not a robot version of Arnold, those scenes still likely happened a very long time ago, since Bernard doesn't appear to know anything about the room that they take place in. Note that those scenes are the only ones where a host is interviewed while wearing clothes. So at the very least it has to be an earlier version of Bernard who is talking to Delores. Maybe the robots have tried to stage a coup before, but Ford stopped it?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by zamler

I guess it's just me but I found that episode about as subtle as a sledgehammer. The Dolores storyline is going nowhere (with cringe worthy dialog) and why can a train car be riddled with bullets and no humans touched. Don't get me wrong the show is still great but those things really pull me out of the immersion.

They shot up the passenger car, but the surviving characters emerged from one of the cargo cars. Less characters make a break for it than were in the train, so I think all of the ones in the passenger car did end up 'dying'.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Those scenes are set in the same bunker where Theresa is murdered by Ford, so they likely happened a long time ago. There is a fan theory that Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, so those scenes are 35+ years ago and you're actually looking at Arnold interacting with Delores, possibly even before the park opened.

Even if Bernard is not a robot version of Arnold, those scenes still likely happened a very long time ago, since Bernard doesn't appear to know anything about the room that they take place in. Note that those scenes are the only ones where a host is interviewed while wearing clothes. So at the very least it has to be an earlier version of Bernard who is talking to Delores. Maybe the robots have tried to stage a coup before, but Ford stopped it?

Was thinking about the Bernard being a robot version of Arnold thing, and what doesn't make sense is that you'd expect people to recognize him if that were true. Ford is dealing with a corporation that sends all sorts of representatives over.

If there was some kind of major incident in the past, you'd expect both Ford and Arnold to be very recognizable and on a lot of news stories at the time. Therefore, any person would be likely to recognize Bernard as looking exactly the same as Arnold.

[polak]

Originally Posted by blankall

Was thinking about the Bernard being a robot version of Arnold thing, and what doesn't make sense is that you'd expect people to recognize him if that were true. Ford is dealing with a corporation that sends all sorts of representatives over.

If there was some kind of major incident in the past, you'd expect both Ford and Arnold to be very recognizable and on a lot of news stories at the time. Therefore, any person would be likely to recognize Bernard as looking exactly the same as Arnold.

They said many times that Arnold and all of his contributions to the park were buried and that Ford allowed it (not surprising now that we know he's crazy). Logan specifically said that no pictures of him exist or anything.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by blankall

Was thinking about the Bernard being a robot version of Arnold thing, and what doesn't make sense is that you'd expect people to recognize him if that were true. Ford is dealing with a corporation that sends all sorts of representatives over.

If there was some kind of major incident in the past, you'd expect both Ford and Arnold to be very recognizable and on a lot of news stories at the time. Therefore, any person would be likely to recognize Bernard as looking exactly the same as Arnold.

As Polak said, they've already mentioned specifically on the show that no-one knows what Arnold looks like and almost no-one even knew Ford's partners name.

[Radio]

Ford is going to replace Theresa with a robot version of herself. If Bernard is an android version of Arnold, then Ford probably replaces "bad" employees with android versions of themselves so he can control them and use them to keep his dream alive. The other girl (can't remember her name) will probably re-appear soon...but not have any interest in pursuing the saboteur.

So I wonder if the android currently being made in the room where Theresa is murdered, is to replace the snooper or Theresa? I am thinking Theresa, Ford probably knew what she was doing for a while now and the snooper was unexpected.

It makes me wonder who else has been "re-purposed"?