Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[frinkprof]

Move over Green Line, city councillor wants Blue Line airport link on the table

Freshman Coun. George Chahal said he plans to bring a notice of motion urging prioritization of an expanded Blue Line once a city study has been completed but before debates begin on the next four-year budget cycle.

“I do want to make sure that this is a priority in our upcoming budget, and defend and fight for the merits of it, because it does connect all of northeast Calgary into the transit system,” Chahal said.

[...]

The Ward 5 councillor would like to see the Blue Line extended north to stations at 88th Avenue N.E. and 128th Avenue N.E., and he believes the expansion could be more economical compared with some phases of the Green Line.

Chahal said he doesn’t believe the Blue Line extension should necessarily be prioritized ahead of the Green Line, but developed alongside it.

[...]

Willem Klumpenhouwer, a PhD candidate in transportation at the University of Calgary, said while most people like the idea of a train to the airport, it may not make sense unless there is sufficient demand from employees working at the airport.
[...]

But Klumpenhouwer also raised doubts about building out the Blue Line before the next phase of the Green Line is complete; the northern portion of the Green Line, he said, particularly the corridor along Centre Street through Highland Park, Thorncliffe and Huntington Hills, is generally denser and better laid out for a transit line.

“If a chunk of money came along for an LRT expansion, I would put still-unfunded portions of the Green Line ahead of the Blue Line and the airport (link),” Klumpenhouwer said.

[...]

Link to the rest of the article

[Kjesse]

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

A lot of cities have similar setups.

It’s not very convenient for a family with small children but for business travellers and airport staff it works very well.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

I guess it depends on what constitutes "all their luggage." My wife and I travel frequently enough, and we usually just have 1 suitcase and 2 carryon's between us. We almost always take the bus up to the airport as it's way cheaper than leaving a car or vehicle and trying to depend on a friend/relative to pick us up.

I suppose a large family or someone travelling with a lot of luggage may not be that interested...but I can see a pretty decent number of folks who travel lighter using this option. I sure would.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

Yep. Have done it in other cities like Shanghai and Paris.

[Weitz]

The current way Calgary transit is set up I don't see business travelers taking the train from the airport downtown. I don't know if the time savings is there - which is the benefit of the train to the airport in a lot of other cities.

[Wormius]

I would like to see an east-west line though further north once the Green Line is complete to connect the Red/Blue/Green lines.

[Jimmy Stang]

The push for LRT to the airport always puzzles me a bit. Sure, it would be nice to have, but the cost would be prohibitive and the ridership relatively low.

I have hopped on trains at various airports, and it sure is handy. But I just can't see a rail link to our airport being utilized in the same way they are in other places. Yet whenever there is any talk of expanding the existing LRT system, some make it sound like Calgary NEEDS a link to the airport to be considered a proper city/airport.

Personally, I'd rank it a distant third on the list of big LRT needs. The Green Line in its entirety and Red Line below Stephen Avenue should be fully completed before any money is spent on an airport link.

A separate tram, monorail, or BRT line linking the airport to the Green or Blue line, perhaps as a joint venture with the Calgary Airport Authority? That might get me on board sooner.

[Ozy_Flame]

While I love the idea of having the LRT get to the Airport (long overdue IMO), I would worry about making it a standard LRT stop. With road crossings, train delays, and other things that can impede the schedule (which often happens), it may not be the fastest way to get to the airport; it has to be able to at least match or beat the BRT, which is a direct link. Outbound passengers would be the most scrutinizing, and they should be.

I would like to see an express train route if ever that was an option. Something that starts downtown, or at the Zoo or Franklin stations, that zips up along Deerfoot and directly into the domestic and international terminal (as separate stops). However, such an idea is probably not feasible for Calgary just yet, so will be left wanting.

Edmonton is starting the ball rolling on getting their land secured. As CP leaves their their raillines behind, the city is looking to pickup the land as a right-of-way through to the south. Additionally, they are looking at bringing back the BRT system to get a better commuter service going.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3934312/i...ority-in-2018/

I know Calgary doesn't have the same requirements, but Edmonton also just recently completed agreements to expand to the borders of the airport, which is a huge step forward.

[Jimmy Stang]

^ Yeah, Edmonton has that unique problem of their airport being so far away from the city, making a train link more beneficial. The taxi companies won't like that though.

You know what would be even better? A train from downtown Calgary to downtown Edmonton, with stops at each airport. Two birds, but one very expensive stone! Plus the larger benefit to travel between the cities. Can't see it happening for a very long time though, if ever.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

You know what would be even better? A train from downtown Calgary to downtown Edmonton, with stops at each airport. Two birds, but one very expensive stone! Can't see it happening for a very long time though, if ever.

This would be ideal IMO

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

I've done it in London before, and Frankfurt, Mexico City, New York and Copenhagen offhand. Depends on how much "luggage" you bring with. Heck, I've even done it on a Calgary Transit bus before - that kinda sucked.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ Yeah, Edmonton has that unique problem of their airport being so far away from the city, making a train link more beneficial. The taxi companies won't like that though.

You know what would be even better? A train from downtown Calgary to downtown Edmonton, with stops at each airport. Two birds, but one very expensive stone! Plus the larger benefit to travel between the cities. Can't see it happening for a very long time though, if ever.

Downtown Calgary - YYC Airport - Airdrie - Red Deer - Leduc - YEG Airport - Edmonton Downtown. If it's going both ways (e.g. two trains on each direction), it would be a huge boon to commerce in all locations, and increase passenger load to both major airports. Depending on the train itself, people may even do a daily commute from as far as Red Deer.

Having this many stops also wouldn't be a problem. In Japan, this kind of stuff is common on the Shinkansen, where a bullet train will stop for 30 seconds at the smaller stops, but spend a little more time at the major ones.

To save costs, you could even have the YYC/YEG train just go airport to airport, and then rely on the local commuter trains to get you the rest of the way (transferring would have to be smooth, and ideally not outdoors).

I have dreamed of this line for a long time, but it will be a pipe dream to see it happen before I die (and I'm only in my early 30's).

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Would people really take the Ctrain with all their luggage to take a flight?

Yes. I can't think of a major airport in Europe where I haven't done this. Same with the Canada Line in Vancouver. I travel carry on only but I've seen people on these trains with suitcases bigger than them and they've gotten along ok. Same with families.

I'd happily use the Ctrain to get to the airport and back even if it was $10 each way. It's $45+ each way for a taxi. If it was -30 or a really late arriving flight I'd hop a taxi but I'd at least have the opportunity to decide.

[Ozy_Flame]

Canada Line in Vancouver is the best way to get downtown at a reasonable price, and with considerable comfort. Plus, the views are great (until you go underground). Would love to have that in Alberta.

[SebC]

I believe the vision for Alberta's high-speed rail is Downtown Edmonton -> YEG -> Red Deer -> YYC -> Downtown Calgary.

Each stop costs more than the time the train is not moving though, there's the acceleration/deceleration to account for as well. So screw Airdrie/Leduc, they can use the airport stops.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Yep. Have done it in other cities like Shanghai and Paris.

works well in Vancouver, too.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ Yeah, Edmonton has that unique problem of their airport being so far away from the city, making a train link more beneficial. The taxi companies won't like that though.

It's just ridiculous how far away it is. When I lived there, pretty much every time I had to drive to the airport, I'd get that same sick in the pit of my stomach feeling (especially because I always leave too late and am in a rush with no room for error) that I've missed the exit and am now driving to Red Deer, as it feels like I've been in farmer's fields on the highway forever. Then sure enough, nope, there it is.

I would love to see a train for that route, but as mentioned, yeah the price tag would be something fierce. A man can dream..

[getbak]

For some reason, people love to throw around this idea that Calgary is out of touch because we don't have a public rail link to the airport. Chahal even says it in the story: “It’s also the quickest and most efficient route into the airport and it will provide an opportunity, just like every other major metropolitan city in North America, for a direct connection to the airport.”


That idea simply isn't true. Here are the 15 busiest airports in North America (in 2015) and what they have for public rail connections at their airports (plus the year those stations opened).

On the list, a Metro/LRT/Commuter station is one that is directly part of the city's main transit system. A Connection is a short "people mover" type service that carries passengers from the airport to a nearby transfer station, where they can board the city's main transit system. (This list is based on information from Wikipedia, so it might have some errors, feel free to correct anything)

1. Atlanta (ATL) - Yes (1988 Metro)
2. Chicago (ORD) - Yes (1984 Metro)
3. Los Angeles (LAX) - No (Connection under construction for 2021 opening)
4. Dallas (DFW) - Yes (2000 Commuter / 2014 LRT)
5. New York (JFK) - Yes (2003 Connection)
6. Denver (DEN) - Yes (2016 Commuter)
7. San Francisco (SFO) - Yes (2003 Metro)
8. Las Vegas (LAS) - No
9. Charlotte (CLT) - No
10. Miami (MIA) - Yes (2012 Metro / 2015 Commuter)
11. Toronto (YYZ) - Yes (2015 Commuter)
12. Phoenix (PHX) - Yes (2013 Connection)
13. Houston (IAH) - No
14. Seattle (SEA) - Yes (2009 LRT)
15. Orlando (MCO) - No

Only the two busiest airports on the list have airport stations that were built before the year 2000. 5 of the airports listed don't have any stations (one is under construction). 5 of them have stations that are less than 10 years old.


Each of these airports handle well more than double the number of passengers as YYC and all serve cities with significantly larger populations than Calgary. Orlando airport handled 38.7 million passengers in 2015. Calgary is 36th in North America with 15.5 million passenger in 2015 (just behind Montreal, which also doesn't have rail service to the airport, despite a much larger population and significantly older and more developed metro system).



A transit link to the airport will be great when its time comes, but it shouldn't be prioritized ahead of building stations that will get much better usage.

IMO, the priorities should be:

1. Green Line Phase One (duh)
2. Green Line North extension (from 16th Ave to McKnight Blvd or 64th Ave)
3. Green Line South extension (to South hospital)
4. Red Line Downtown subway
5. Incremental extensions of all lines
6. Once Green & Blue lines reach Airport Trail, connect the two through the airport and start a ring line that eventually circles the city and intersects with the existing Red, Blue, and Green lines (I'll be long dead before this happens)

[TheAlpineOracle]

I usually take the train from the airport wherever I’m travelling if it’s much cheaper than transit and relatively quick. Do it all the time in Seattle, Denver, and Dallas.

Chicago though is terrible. Did it once and never again. Toronto’s train is great but it’s cost prohibitive. By the time myself, my wife, or a co-worker each buy our fare, it’s reaches the cost of a cab so we’ll just take the cab unless it’s peak rush hour traffic.