Brian "Freaking" Elliott

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Nope. I'm going to disagree.

The fact of the matter is that as the goaltender there are certain expectations.

Brian Elliott, in the beginning was letting in a minimum of one easily savable goal per game.

Now many would say: "So what? Its just one goal."

No. It isnt.

It is a lack of trust. A lack of faith. Defenders cant trust their goalie to make that save. So they overplay defence, underplay offence, tighten their grips, dont make that pass.

Brian Elliott's 'Guaranteed Muffin per Game' caused a lot of the problems that ailed this team in the beginning.

What are you disagreeing with? Yes, he was bad early.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

EVERY goalie lets in softies, it only becomes an issue when there are too many of them (like in the first 11 games of the season)

Look at Mrazek two games ago. Lots of people on here think he would be a way better goalie. Fact is that Elliott's numbers are better this year. Also, I thought he looked weak on all 3 goals the Flames scored.

Then yesterday, Greiss was standing on his head for a while but still looked weak on at least 3 of the 4 goals he let in.

Fans are always going to be hard on the goalie because they see all of his flubs. And the thing is, almost every goal, on every goalie, is a mistake on their part (more or less).

I think that, due to the bad start, people are being too hard on Elliott, and he has been pretty damn great forr the past 3 months.

Let's nor pretend he wasn't letting in softies outside the first 11 games of the season. He was letting terribly soft goals at very inopportune times right up until about 2.5/3 weeks ago. You can't do that against good teams and win.

Thankfully he seems to have moved on from that, but i'm not sure if that's solely a function of him changing something or if the Flames vastly improving their defence has limited the amount of opportunities team have to go glove side on him. His glove still looks very shaky from time to time. I think it's probably a a little of both.

[Sylvanfan]

I do think that as a team there is a lot more trust in their system and what the players in the system are doing.

The goaltenders have more trust in the group of 5 to defend a certain way, and as a result are doing their collective job better. Conversely the team in front of the goaltenders is trusting that they will do their job and also play with more confidence.

I always think of a chapter in a book called the power of habit, where Tony Dungy theorized that if players had complete trust in how they reacted, and did things habitually without hesitation they would ultimately perform better because that split second hesitation was the difference between making a big play or giving one up.

I think the Flames as a group are demonstrating better habits, and the results are coming.

Overall, the Flames have a very small commitment to their goal tending budget. So it's probably a stretch for them to expect the goaltending to be too far above the norm. Lately the goaltending seems to have been above average, and in my opinion, it's been better than that. The results are showing up in the win column.

[Classic_Sniper]

Once Brian Elliott figures out his glove hand he'll be an elite goalie. His glove is holding him back right now though as he is giving up the same goals, high glove off of clean shots far too often. He even has a tough time catching routine shots from time to time. I don't know if it's a tracking issue or if his technique is bad, but if he can ever figure out a way to fix this issue, he can be one of the top netminders in the league. Thankfully it hasn't cost the team lately, but he'll need to fix it up soon or I fear it will.

[GioforPM]

I agree with Enoch. You'd have to watch all the other teams to know if Elliott lets in more than his share of "softies", but when I do watch other teams (and I do a lot) I see a ton of goals go in that would have CPers screaming for Elliott's head. And these are goals against elite guys as well as guys CPers always mention in trade/UFA talks.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

From Enoch Root in another thread:



.901 and .882 during 2/3 of his first 34 games played. That's 2/3 of his season. It's fair to say he sucked for 2/3 of his first 34 games played (he's at 36 now).

His current save % is up to .905, which speaks to just how good he has been as of late.

I kind of look at it like his season is 2 thirds through and he's currently playing into the final 3rd. I took his stats and broke them into two segments of 18 games -- it does include the 3 games in which he was pulled/called on. You can see a clear upswing in his stats in the 2nd third that proves promising for the final stretch here.

Game # GA SA SV SV% TOI GAA WIN/LOSS
Game # 1 6 27 21 0.778 59 6.1 L
Game # 2 4 28 24 0.857 59 4.07 L
Game # 3 4 32 28 0.875 59 4.07 L
Game # 4 2 33 31 0.939 59 2.03 W
Game # 5 1 24 23 0.958 60 1 W
Game # 6 2 33 31 0.939 59 2.03 W
Game # 7 2 28 26 0.928 59 2.03 L
Game # 8 4 21 17 0.809 59 4.07 L
Game # 9 5 39 34 0.871 60 5 L
Game # 10 3 21 18 0.857 59 3.05 L
Game # 11 4 28 24 0.857 60 4 L
Game # 12 4 32 28 0.875 58 4.13 L
Game # 13 2 27 25 0.925 61.5 1.95 OTL
Game # 14 1 13 12 0.923 18.5 3.24 BACKUP L
Game # 15 2 27 25 0.925 60 2 W
Game # 16 1 14 13 0.928 60 1 W
Game # 17 3 28 25 0.892 60 3 W
Game # 18 2 29 27 0.931 60 2 W
TOTALS 52 484 432 0.893 1030 3.04 7W | 11L
Game # GA SA SV SV% TOI GAA WIN/LOSS
Game # 19 1 18 17 0.944 60 1 W
Game # 20 4 13 9 0.692 59 4.07 L
Game # 21 1 27 26 0.962 65 0.93 SOL
Game # 22 3 26 23 0.884 51 3.52 L
Game # 23 4 28 24 0.857 60 4 L
Game # 24 2 27 25 0.925 64.5 0.93 OTW
Game # 25 1 29 28 0.965 60 1 W
Game # 26 3 29 26 0.896 61 2.95 OTW
Game # 27 4 32 28 0.875 58.5 4.1 L
Game # 28 1 9 8 0.888 20 3 BACKUP L
Game # 29 1 34 33 0.970 60 1 W
Game # 30 2 19 17 0.894 59.5 2.02 OTL
Game # 31 5 28 23 0.821 60.5 4.96 OTW
Game # 32 2 25 23 0.920 60 2 W
Game # 33 1 35 34 0.971 60 1 W
Game # 34 1 29 28 0.965 62 0.97 OTW
Game # 35 2 37 35 0.945 63.5 1.89 OTW
Game # 36 2 35 33 0.942 60 2 W
TOTALS 40 480 440 0.906 1044.5 2.29 11W | 7L

Looks to be getting much better here down the stretch, GAA average is way down and he's SV% modestly up while seeing the same amount of work statistically over the 18 game stretches. GREAT to see!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Let's nor pretend he wasn't letting in softies outside the first 11 games of the season. He was letting terribly soft goals at very inopportune times right up until about 2.5/3 weeks ago. You can't do that against good teams and win.

Thankfully he seems to have moved on from that, but i'm not sure if that's solely a function of him changing something or if the Flames vastly improving their defence has limited the amount of opportunities team have to go glove side on him. His glove still looks very shaky from time to time. I think it's probably a a little of both.

I never said he hasn't been.

What I said was that all goalies do, and that, other than during the first terrible stretch, he hasn't been letting in any more than other goalies.

But we are tainted by the early suckage and have therefore continued to be extremely critical of him even after he started performing normally.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I kind of look at it like his season is 2 thirds through and he's currently playing into the final 3rd. I took his stats and broke them into two segments of 18 games -- it does include the 3 games in which he was pulled/called on. You can see a clear upswing in his stats in the 2nd third that proves promising for the final stretch here.

Game # GA SA SV SV% TOI GAA WIN/LOSS
Game # 1 6 27 21 0.778 59 6.1 L
Game # 2 4 28 24 0.857 59 4.07 L
Game # 3 4 32 28 0.875 59 4.07 L
Game # 4 2 33 31 0.939 59 2.03 W
Game # 5 1 24 23 0.958 60 1 W
Game # 6 2 33 31 0.939 59 2.03 W
Game # 7 2 28 26 0.928 59 2.03 L
Game # 8 4 21 17 0.809 59 4.07 L
Game # 9 5 39 34 0.871 60 5 L
Game # 10 3 21 18 0.857 59 3.05 L
Game # 11 4 28 24 0.857 60 4 L
Game # 12 4 32 28 0.875 58 4.13 L
Game # 13 2 27 25 0.925 61.5 1.95 OTL
Game # 14 1 13 12 0.923 18.5 3.24 BACKUP L
Game # 15 2 27 25 0.925 60 2 W
Game # 16 1 14 13 0.928 60 1 W
Game # 17 3 28 25 0.892 60 3 W
Game # 18 2 29 27 0.931 60 2 W
TOTALS 52 484 432 0.893 1030 3.04 7W | 11L
Game # GA SA SV SV% TOI GAA WIN/LOSS
Game # 19 1 18 17 0.944 60 1 W
Game # 20 4 13 9 0.692 59 4.07 L
Game # 21 1 27 26 0.962 65 0.93 SOL
Game # 22 3 26 23 0.884 51 3.52 L
Game # 23 4 28 24 0.857 60 4 L
Game # 24 2 27 25 0.925 64.5 0.93 OTW
Game # 25 1 29 28 0.965 60 1 W
Game # 26 3 29 26 0.896 61 2.95 OTW
Game # 27 4 32 28 0.875 58.5 4.1 L
Game # 28 1 9 8 0.888 20 3 BACKUP L
Game # 29 1 34 33 0.970 60 1 W
Game # 30 2 19 17 0.894 59.5 2.02 OTL
Game # 31 5 28 23 0.821 60.5 4.96 OTW
Game # 32 2 25 23 0.920 60 2 W
Game # 33 1 35 34 0.971 60 1 W
Game # 34 1 29 28 0.965 62 0.97 OTW
Game # 35 2 37 35 0.945 63.5 1.89 OTW
Game # 36 2 35 33 0.942 60 2 W
TOTALS 40 480 440 0.906 1044.5 2.29 11W | 7L


Looks to be getting much better here down the stretch, GAA average is way down and he's SV% modestly up while seeing the same amount of work statistically over the 18 game stretches. GREAT to see!

Seems pretty clear that he turned his season around at Game #13. Stats since then:

24GP
15-4-3
567/618
.917
2.24 GAA

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Seems pretty clear that he turned his season around at Game #13. Stats since then:

24GP
15-4-3
567/618
.917

He really has had much better numbers after Jan 1. Nice to see with .917 goaltending the Flames team is very successful. I don't believe this is an unrealistic level of goaltending for the Flames to expect, either from our current goalies or whoever we have next year - whether it be this tandem or someone new.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

He really has had much better numbers after Jan 1. Nice to see with .917 goaltending the Flames team is very successful. I don't believe this is an unrealistic level of goaltending for the Flames to expect, either from our current goalies or whoever we have next year - whether it be this tandem or someone new.

Game #13 is actually Nov 28

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I never said he hasn't been.

What I said was that all goalies do, and that, other than during the first terrible stretch, he hasn't been letting in any more than other goalies.

But we are tainted by the early suckage and have therefore continued to be extremely critical of him even after he started performing normally.

I've watched practically every Flames game this year, and I would completely disagree with you. There's no stat to prove it, but up until 12 games ago he was clearly letting in more soft goals than other guys were. It was costing us games. He'd let in his muffin, and it was all down hill from there. Sure other goalies let in bad goalies from time to time, but not routinely each game.

[PepsiFree]

Bishop is notorious for letting in soft goals, but he's a Vezina finalist. People don't care. It's not the quality of the goal let in, it's how the goalie reacts and how many goals they let in per game.

Elliott is in the same mold. If the one softie stopped going in, and it was a "tough" looking goal instead, what difference does it make? It's not like the team seems to care. Elliott has let in a soft goal multiple times during this win-streak and they just keep rolling.

"Soft goals" is a false narrative. Multiple top tier goalies in the NHL let in soft goals regularly, the difference between them and the bottom tier is how they perform outside of that goal.