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Old 08-14-2017, 01:26 PM   #61
GreenLantern2814
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This really isn't meant to be implemented at the pro level - it's a development tool for kids. It's not about anything other than that.

In 10 years, when the US has a new generation of kids that learned an entire unique skillset to play with the puck while on the PK, that's going to have an impact.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:37 PM   #62
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What a stupid ####ing rule. Hopefully that never comes to the NHL. The game is fine the way it is ffs. More goals does not equal more exciting hockey lol.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:45 PM   #63
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What's better for the team on the PP...

A (basically) 50-50 saw off for possession in the faceoff circle but a little more "real" time on the PP or ability to move the puck up ice and find coverage holes as a 5 man unit facing a 4 man unit while burning time off the clock?

I'm not sure but something tells me in the junior, college and pro game everything comes out in the wash.

I understand it for the kids as it will help foster skill and decision making in pressure situations.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:25 PM   #64
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Yeah, the best strategy will still be to ice it. So now we will just have a couple extra faceoffs each PP.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:15 PM   #65
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The reasoning behind this is all about teaching skill at a young age and to be honest the Americans are developing skilled young players more so than we Canadians, I believe.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:04 AM   #66
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Quote:
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The reasoning behind this is all about teaching skill at a young age and to be honest the Americans are developing skilled young players more so than we Canadians, I believe.
Are they?

Central Scouting's top ten NA skaters heading into recent drafts:
2017: Canada 8, USA 1
2016: Canada 2, USA 5 (+Matthews, who was listed as a European prospect)
2015: Canada 4, USA 3
2014: Canada 9, USA 0
2013: Canada 7, USA 1
2012: Canada 4, USA 2
2011: Canada 8, USA 0
2010: Canada 7, USA 3
2009: Canada 8, USA 2
2008: Canada 8, USA 2
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:26 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
This really isn't meant to be implemented at the pro level - it's a development tool for kids. It's not about anything other than that.

In 10 years, when the US has a new generation of kids that learned an entire unique skillset to play with the puck while on the PK, that's going to have an impact.
I would love to play that team in 10 years so I could strip the puck off of them while on the PP.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:10 PM   #68
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Something that's perhaps being overlooked is what the defensive team is going to do after they win the face-off. Under current rules, they usually ice it. That would result in another face-off though, so it wouldn't be much of a win. The actual penalty killing has to be a soft dump, possession by the penalized team, or possession by the offensive team.
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:03 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14 View Post
Are they?

Central Scouting's top ten NA skaters heading into recent drafts:
2017: Canada 8, USA 1
2016: Canada 2, USA 5 (+Matthews, who was listed as a European prospect)
2015: Canada 4, USA 3
2014: Canada 9, USA 0
2013: Canada 7, USA 1
2012: Canada 4, USA 2
2011: Canada 8, USA 0
2010: Canada 7, USA 3
2009: Canada 8, USA 2
2008: Canada 8, USA 2
In 2017 there were actually 4 Canadians and 1 American taken in the top ten so your argument is skewed. Also in team play the American juniors are beating our Canadian kids fairly regularly.
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:11 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC View Post
Something that's perhaps being overlooked is what the defensive team is going to do after they win the face-off. Under current rules, they usually ice it. That would result in another face-off though, so it wouldn't be much of a win. The actual penalty killing has to be a soft dump, possession by the penalized team, or possession by the offensive team.
Though time has been removed from the clock, and the flow of the play has been broken up - which likely(?) favours the PK team.
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:59 AM   #71
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For younger players (such as proposed) I really like this change as it encourages thinking, puck patience and some skill when you are on the PK. Nothing wrong with that since it is all about skill development at that age. Last time we played games in the U.S. they also did not have the tag up offside rule, it was an automatic whistle on an offside. I liked that one too as it also encourages patience and puck movement while you wait for your team mates to clear the zone rather than just mindlessly dump it in every time.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:13 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
In 2017 there were actually 4 Canadians and 1 American taken in the top ten so your argument is skewed. Also in team play the American juniors are beating our Canadian kids fairly regularly.
On the first: Obviously, since Europeans are drafted as well. I used CSB's top ten NA skaters list as it has consistent criteria and largely restricts itself to the two nations under discussion.

On the second: I presume you are referring to USA Hockey's success at the U18 level? Much of that is a result of the US U18 team being the USNTDP program team, which plays together throughout the season. That offers a significant advantage over teams that are thrown together just for tournaments. At younger age groups, Canada's talent base is divided into two or four teams per tournament. And none of this has translated at the U20 and adult levels, however.
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Old 08-16-2017, 10:25 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubicon View Post
For younger players (such as proposed) I really like this change as it encourages thinking, puck patience and some skill when you are on the PK. Nothing wrong with that since it is all about skill development at that age. Last time we played games in the U.S. they also did not have the tag up offside rule, it was an automatic whistle on an offside. I liked that one too as it also encourages patience and puck movement while you wait for your team mates to clear the zone rather than just mindlessly dump it in every time.
i think in the 90s the non-tag offside rule was easily 'trapped' by the defending team. Line 5 guys on the blueline, how to you get in?

For it to work, there has to be absolutely no tolerance of interference which with NHL refereeing is not possible.
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Old 08-16-2017, 11:28 AM   #74
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i think in the 90s the non-tag offside rule was easily 'trapped' by the defending team. Line 5 guys on the blueline, how to you get in?

For it to work, there has to be absolutely no tolerance of interference which with NHL refereeing is not possible.
Agreed, would not work in the NHL. I am referring to minor hockey where skill development, especially at younger ages is important. Specifically in regards to tag up offside I noticed the biggest difference not at the initial zone entry but rather when a team had possession in the O Zone and the puck came out momentarily. Typically when there is the tag up rule and the defenceman got back to the puck and was under any kind of pressure they just dump it back in, everyone tags up, and then goes back on the forecheck. With the immediate whistle it forced the D man (or whomever had possession) to look for a pass option (D to D etc.) or maneuver away from the pressure while waiting for the forwards to clear the zone.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubicon View Post
For younger players (such as proposed) I really like this change as it encourages thinking, puck patience and some skill when you are on the PK. Nothing wrong with that since it is all about skill development at that age. Last time we played games in the U.S. they also did not have the tag up offside rule, it was an automatic whistle on an offside. I liked that one too as it also encourages patience and puck movement while you wait for your team mates to clear the zone rather than just mindlessly dump it in every time.
Both rules add more whistles (and thus more time) to a game's playing time. NHL would be crazy to do it. For the icing rule to work in the NHL, it'd have to be a penalty so it wouldn't happen often.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:37 PM   #76
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When the WHA was functioning their rule was you had to carry or pass the puck over your own blue line before being able to ice it while killing a penalty. Failing to do that would result in a regular icing call.
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