Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

This is just awful, if true. (And I don't have any reason to think it isn't.)

I don't have any reason to think it is true or isn't true.


I have every reason to wait for the investigation to play out.

[Amethyst]

I suppose the injuries could have happened before the police arrived. I just can't see why the parents would go on TV if that was the case. Anyway, I hope they complete a thorough investigation and if it is true, look at implementing some training about how to deal with these kinds of situations.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Yeah, gotta wait for the ASIRT investigation on this one. We have one incredibly biased side of the story to go on and nothing else. And because of the ASIRT investigation, the police probably can’t release a statement of their account yet.

If he was enough of a risk/combative enough that the parents decided police involvement was needed, I seriously doubt that the cop decided to slam the kid on the ground just because he got called a bastard once.

So, you say we have to wait for ASIRT (which I completely agree with) and then you don’t wait and cast serious doubt on the allegation based on an apparent default belief that the parents must be making a false report because the person accused is a police officer. So I counter your serious doubt with proof of a serious attack and injury on a citizen by a CPS officer because of being subject to nothing more than rudeness and some swearing:

[87] In the current case, I find the officer’s behaviour reprehensible. The use of a strike to the groin where no use of physical force at all was called for, in the context of an unlawful investigative detention, is behaviour that calls out for punishment, denunciation and deterrence. The assault was contrary to Calgary Police Service policy on the use of force, and contrary to Horton’s training. The situation was further aggravated by the behaviour of Horton after the strike. Horton knew Nathan was in serious pain, even if he did not know the extent of the injury. Yet, he did not offer Nathan medical attention, or even transportation to a safer location, leaving Nathan vulnerable and without help in a dangerous area.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/do...?resultIndex=4

Sadly, there is nothing inherently unbelievable about these allegations at all. So we either wait to see what the independent investigation concludes or we don’t.

I think it is owed to all parties involved to wait before casting serious doubts on their credibility.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MBates

I think it is owed to all parties involved to wait before casting serious doubts on their credibility.

in a nut shell

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I don't have any reason to think it is true or isn't true.


I have every reason to wait for the investigation to play out.

Not me bro. I'm here to pass judgement immediately because there's a certain narrative I want to be true.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Not me bro. I'm here to pass judgement immediately because there's a certain narrative I want to be true.

nut up and eat that beef bro.

[OMG!WTF!]

It's so important to film any interaction with police. If this happened it likely would never have happened if they were being filmed.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by MBates

So, you say we have to wait for ASIRT (which I completely agree with) and then you don’t wait and cast serious doubt on the allegation based on an apparent default belief that the parents must be making a false report because the person accused is a police officer.

Fair enough. I guess the point I was trying to make, poorly, is that articles like this should be taken with a massive grain of salt considering that only one side of the story is being told and the other side can't refute anything that is said.

Oversight and transparency is key, but other than generating revenue for the news outlet, is there really a point in reporting a story like this, especially when the story will not contain all the facts? I can't wait until police are equipped with body cameras and that footage can be released publically. It will remove all bias from accusations and only show facts.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

It's so important to film any interaction with police. If this happened it likely would never have happened if they were being filmed.

This bugs me. I agree with you, but why does someone have to know they're being filmed in order to moderate their behaviour?

You're a Police Officer. Act like it.

It shouldnt take a GoPro to make a Police Officer behave.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Locke

This bugs me. I agree with you, but why does someone have to know they're being filmed in order to moderate their behaviour?

You're a Police Officer. Act like it.

It shouldnt take a GoPro to make a Police Officer behave.

This bugs me. I agree with you, but why does someone have to know they're being filmed in order to moderate their behaviour?

They are an Upstanding Citizen. Act like it.

It shouldn't take a GoPro to make the general public behave.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This bugs me. I agree with you, but why does someone have to know they're being filmed in order to moderate their behaviour?

They are an Upstanding Citizen. Act like it.

It shouldn't take a GoPro to make the general public behave.

True.

Though, worth nothing, it’s one person’s actual job to do it.

[bob-loblaw]

My daughter went to a school for children that having learning disabilities, and most of the kids had some type of behaviour disorders. In our first meeting with the Principal, just outside his office the Vice-Principal had to restrain a child that was having some severe behavioral issues. My wife is a nurse and they are taught how to restrain people. I don't know how to do a Police Officer's job at all, but I would think they're trained on restraining people properly of all ages and sizes.

We obviously don't have the full story, but trying to logically think this through, I can't see injuries like that being necessary or unavoidable, and I don't think a 12 year-old can give himself such injuries. It's a really bad situation if they feel they have to call police in order to get some help for him. I heard the father on the radio this morning and it was just so sad.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

This bugs me. I agree with you, but why does someone have to know they're being filmed in order to moderate their behaviour?

They are an Upstanding Citizen. Act like it.

It shouldn't take a GoPro to make the general public behave.

I don’t think telling the 12 year old with autism he was being filmed would’ve made any difference.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Fair enough. I guess the point I was trying to make, poorly, is that articles like this should be taken with a massive grain of salt considering that only one side of the story is being told and the other side can't refute anything that is said.

Oversight and transparency is key, but other than generating revenue for the news outlet, is there really a point in reporting a story like this, especially when the story will not contain all the facts? I can't wait until police are equipped with body cameras and that footage can be released publically. It will remove all bias from accusations and only show facts.

Are you equally critical of police giving press conferences blasting out details to the public at large (and the potential jury pool) where only their side of the story is told?

As to the reporting (generally) this is what the Alberta Court of Appeal has said about police misconduct:

Because of the extraordinary powers they have to use force and to put restraints on liberty, the misconduct of police officers is always a matter of public interest.

It is important that allegations are reported as such, and distinguished from reporting conclusions (which is what we are saying in terms of waiting for ASIRT) but the reporting is vital for the public to be informed about the realities of things that occur in their communities.

[OMG!WTF!]

I wonder about the follow up in the media when ASIRT does come to conclusions. I know you can look up press releases from ASIRT and hardly any of them make much of a news story. Once in a while there is an officer that is exonerated for a shooting but rarely do I hear about lesser than a death related story. I also wonder about the incidents the police say they are investigating but then never seem to conclude...this guy for example.



https://globalnews.ca/news/3407779/c...during-arrest/

[rotten42]

I think I'll wait till more details are released before I jump on the social media witch hunt band wagon.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

This one just sucks...


https://globalnews.ca/video/4406282/...on-with-autism


Telling the parents who just watched their boy got body slammed while in handcuffs that he fell is quite sickening. Hoping for charges, convictions and payouts if guilty.

Sounds to me like he wasn't in handcuffs since his parent say he said "you're not putting those handcuffs on me."

Originally Posted by Amethyst

This is just awful, if true. (And I don't have any reason to think it isn't.)

No reason to think it's not true? The PARENTS CALLED 911 saying they were afraid he would hurt himself (and others I suspect). This suggests he was acting out, with some degree of violence.

The cops got him outside, he was still belligerent, the cop tried to put him in a bear hug and turn him at which time the boy and/or the cop lost their footing and fell to the ground. Unfortunate accident resulting from an emotionally charged encounter.

The police were called for a reason. I'm sure it was traumatic for the parents to see this but is disingenuous to suggest that the son had no complicity in this situation.

It reminds of some TV reports you see from the US from time to time. A family calls the police to report a family member threatening other family members, often with a weapon. The police are called, the situation escalates and the aggressive family is arrested, injured or worse, then all of a sudden the story becomes Police brutality!

Edited to add information.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4408224/f...cers-injuries/

Alberta’s police watchdog says a 12-year-old boy with mental health concerns was described as being “uncontrollable and causing damage within the residence” when Calgary officers were called to the Cougar Ridge neighbourhood on Aug. 21 at around 6 p.m.


The Alberta Serious Incident Response Team (ASIRT) released a statement with new details Friday, after the parents of Jack Parcells came forward to Global News about the alleged assault. His parents told Global News the boy has autism, anxiety and ADHD.

“Police determined that the youth may have been off his prescribed medication for several days and was confined to his locked bedroom at the time of the call,” the statement said.

At the time of the incident, ASIRT said “the youth was struggling with officers”—a characterization Doug Parcells objects to.

“[The] two officers were never needed to be together to control Jack. Jack was not out of control,” he said.

ASIRT said the boy was not handcuffed and had not yet been placed in the police vehicle when the incident happened.

“Police were advised that the youth had been in the care of other family members for several days and exhibited behavioural concerns upon returning to his parents,” the statement read.

So not in handcuffs.

If the police weren't needed to control him, why were they called? Why was he LOCKED IN HIS ROOM by the parents?

Again, I understand the parents trauma but they are hardly in a position to be objective.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

It reminds of some TV reports you see from the US from time to time. A family calls the police to report a family member threatening other family members, often with a weapon.

It shouldn't. An unarmed 12 year old with a mental health issue should not draw any comparison to a person threatening others with a weapon.

If you can't handle a 12 year old without sending him to the hospital, time find another vocation. Clearly not fit to be a police officer.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by MBates

Are you equally critical of police giving press conferences blasting out details to the public at large (and the potential jury pool) where only their side of the story is told?

I am. I firmly believe that barring a justifiable public safety interest, the details of those charged with crimes should not have their names or pictures published until they have had their trial. Not only to try and maintain an unbiased jury pool, but to prevent the damage to lives that occurs if an acquittal or not guilty verdict is returned.

At a minimum, the press should print the results of cases and ASIRT investigations with the same fervor that they publish the accusations.

In this specific case, where is the public benefit to reporting the incident the way it was done? If they were going for transparency, they could simply have reported that an ASIRT investigation was launched after a public complaint was lodged after a detention resulted in injuries. Instead they print multiple paragraphs that showcase half the story and maximum emotional impact. If the investigation clears the police, instead of multiple paragraphs detailing the encounter and how the forced used was proportionate, we'll probably get a few lines saying that they were cleared of wrongdoing.

EDIT: Just saw the added details. So he was out of control enough for his parents to confine him in a locked room and call 911, yet when the police show up, he isn't out of control?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Sounds to me like he wasn't in handcuffs since his parent say he said "you're not putting those handcuffs on me."


No reason to think it's not true? The PARENTS CALLED 911 saying they were afraid he would hurt himself (and others I suspect). This suggests he was acting out, with some degree of violence.

The cops got him outside, he was still belligerent, the cop tried to put him in a bear hug and turn him at which time the boy and/or the cop lost their footing and fell to the ground. Unfortunate accident resulting from an emotionally charged encounter.

The police were called for a reason. I'm sure it was traumatic for the parents to see this but is disingenuous to suggest that the son had no complicity in this situation.

There was no text to the story when I posted it, just the video so I did misinterpret the handcuffing. But where in the world are you getting the "cop tried to put him in a bear hug and they both fell to the ground" story? That is no where in sight here.



I'm all for waiting until the case is concluded but my god what in the world makes you think crushing a 12 year old's skull is an appropriate level of force in any situation? You make it sound like he was a man child running around terrorizing the village. Yet there was even another cop there that wasn't even engaged with the kid.



By film these events, I mean the public should be filming every time they come in contact with the police. It's too easy not to anymore. I'm pretty sure it would have prevented this.