Notes: Ken King (Iginla, New Building)

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Ken King is a businessman... under his presidency the Flames have continually sold out the venue, made money of of licensing, expanded their entertainment footprint (Stamps, Roughnecks, etc. etc.)... for a businessman that seems like a pretty solid tenure.

The Flames are a business and as a business it's primary goal is not to "win championships" it's to make money. Now making money is a whole lot easier when you have extra productions (AKA Playoff Home Games) but honestly if I were Flames ownership why would I show someone whose done his job admirably (from a profit/loss stantpoint) the door? Until the Flames go from continually in the black to continually in the red Ken Kings job is probably pretty safe so long as he wants it.

The business is hockey

"Anything short of year after year improvement should be challenged"
"While we run a building, and we run a food and beverage operation, the core of our business is the Flaming C and the hockey team."
"(The GM) and I hold the responsibility for our challenges and our setbacks"

- Ken King

[Wronskian]

I don't like this line of thinking where King says Iginla is an 'investment'. He's 35 years old! Way to late to be talking about him that way.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

I don't like this line of thinking where King says Iginla is an 'investment'. He's 35 years old! Way to late to be talking about him that way.

Yeah.. My 2003 Tahoe is an "investment" but is fast approaching the point where it is nickel and diming me to death. Not that the two are at all similar ..

[Wronskian]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Yeah.. My 2003 Tahoe is an "investment" but is fast approaching the point where it is nickel and diming me to death. Not that the two are at all similar ..

Haha kind of what I was thinking.

Even if Iginla is an investment, they got a great return from him! And it's not like they have sunk 80MM in him and are risking that capital by trading him. That is salary, they realize profit on that contract every year through iginlas play and marketability.

By putting 2 and 2 together, I feel like having Iginla around is somehow related to the new arena.

[zamler]

I think they've milked the Iginla cow enough, good grief.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Wronskian

Haha kind of what I was thinking.

Even if Iginla is an investment, they got a great return from him! And it's not like they have sunk 80MM in him and are risking that capital by trading him. That is salary, they realize profit on that contract every year through iginlas play and marketability.

By putting 2 and 2 together, I feel like having Iginla around is somehow related to the new arena.

interesting point eh? need to keep the dome full, and easiest way of bringing in the "average" fan is by keeping the face of the franchise around.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I don't think you understand business. Iginla is an investment. He has invested $80 million dollars for Iginla to help lead Calgary to a championship. Winning or not, Iginla is an investment.

On the ice, he's a depreciating asset and will eventually be worth zero.

The accumulating "investment" part is related to his value as "good will." Keeping him around helps them sellout a new building as he's a fan favourite.

If they keep him it will be because of his value in transitioning their fan base to a new building. it's not an on ice decision but rather a business decision.

Cowperson

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by zamler

I think they've milked the Iginla cow enough, good grief.

this. they act like he was the first settler in the calgary area hundreds of years ago, or is the Guy Weadick of Calgary Hockey or something.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Fairly certain the philosophical burden of proof is on you as the person making the extraordinary claim, not on anyone else here.

I stated the opinions of people who have delt with him. I make no other claim, is that so "extraordinary"? I would also never jeopardize those relationships to appease anyone on this board. like I said, take it or leave it. I don't care.
I hope Iggy does walk at the end of the year if that is indeed KK attitude.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I stated the opinions of people who have delt with him. I make no other claim, is that so "extraordinary"? I would also never jeopardize those relationships to appease anyone on this board. like I said, take it or leave it. I don't care.
I hope Iggy does walk at the end of the year if that is indeed KK attitude.

When you write Ken King's a "dick and a bully" with nothing to back it up other than it's something your buddies told you, yeah, it's extraordinary; extraordinarily defamatory.

Claiming someone else needs to present some type of evidence to refute it when you have nothing to prove it yourself is asinine. You're a guy on the internet saying crap about someone offline with nothing to actually defend you're saying. Not exactly a rarity, so I'd say his eye-rolling reaction to what you said was entirely appropriate.

[Erick Estrada]

King pretty well stated what we have all known for years. The owners associate Jarome Iginla with $$$. King didn't talk about the Flames wanting to keep him because he's a great hockey player but how they have invested in him. Three years into what looks to be a playoff drought that will likely span longer than the 7 year drought of the late 90s early 2000's as this team is going to be so terrible in three years propping up Iginla on the first line the rebuild won't likely start until Iginla's retirement which knowing the Flames won't be until he's 40. Yuck.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Trailer Fire

I don't think you understand business. Iginla is an investment. He has invested $80 million dollars for Iginla to help lead Calgary to a championship. Winning or not, Iginla is an investment.

Yeah but doesn't it seem bitter and ignorant to keep an investment that now most likely wont help you win a championship?? IMO you have to turn over your investment at some point especially if the initial goal (Championship team lead by Iginla) doesn't happen, as close as they did come. Nieuwendyk turned into Iginla it would be a shame to see Iginla turn into what he most likely will if he retires a Flame, a cupless wonder.

If we are keeping the Captain then I will obviously keep cheering him on and hoping for him to get that cup here but I'd rather see him get the chance where he actually could win a cup while we get a return on the initial investment.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Does anyone else feel like this team is approaching some kind of Bill Wurtz Blackhawks level in regards to managing the team?

Definitely a disconnect between what fans want and what owners want. At the end of the day both parties want a Stanley Cup but the fans want to go about it in the somewhat proven method of tearing down a bad foundation and building it back up. It's not a certainty that it will result in a cup but most of todays contenders went that route. The owners want to keep building on that bad foundation thinking that a new coat of paint and some furnishings will keep it competitive with newer, better foundations. No other teams take this route but the Flames. The only people in North America that agree with the owners is Ken King and that's because he's paid to be their yes man.

[ricosuave]

REALLY wishing that JD became president after hearing this...

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Definitely a disconnect between what fans want and what owners want. At the end of the day both parties want a Stanley Cup but the fans want to go about it in the somewhat proven method of tearing down a bad foundation and building it back up. It's not a certainty that it will result in a cup but most of todays contenders went that route. The owners want to keep building on that bad foundation thinking that a new coat of paint and some furnishings will keep it competitive with newer, better foundations. No other teams take this route but the Flames. The only people in North America that agree with the owners is Ken King and that's because he's paid to be their yes man.

You don't think Feaster is part of this equation too? I personally think when he accepted this job, he knew what the owners would expect. He was right there for the Sutter meltdown.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Definitely a disconnect between what fans want and what owners want.

Attendance would suggest there is not much of a disconnect.

[Robbob]

I think until a player takes the torch as the go to player, iginla in the minds of the owners will be worth more. Had someone taken that mantel I think the owners would be more willing to let him go. It kind of highlights the sad state the franchise is in.

I wonder if the young guns era scares the owners as they seem to be really hesitant closing this chapter

[browna]

Dare I dip the foot in the Kiprusoff waters, interupting the piling on of King and Iginla, and actually talk about the content he touched on in regards to what's going to affect the team on the ice, this season?

From those ominous words, doesn't look good for Kiprusoff, and even when Iginla starts getting the time and space to operate, it may be too late. The next 5 games in 8 days will be a good indicator if the players that Feaster has put on the wheel of goaltending, are going to pay off or not.

[Loyal and True]

Iginla can stay, if he wants.

I disagree with the armchair GMs who believe trading him away is the best (or only) way to build a cup winner in the future.

Asset management is important, and something (anyting) is always better than nothing. But the marginal gain in asset renewal is not enough to change the long term outlook for this franchise. Perhaps the return would be enough to keep the team in playoff contention for a few more years. Seems like another postponement of the inevitible downturn.

This business is cycular, and after some good and memorable years we will be destined to have another young guns era. Every team is going to be in the same boat.

Our current predicament is because of this: Morris, Tkaczuk, Fata, Saprykin, Krahn, Kobasew, Nystrom.

These are our blue chip 1st rounders from the young guns era. There were no building blocks with which to build a proper franchise. Other than Iginla, an expansion team would have more assets to work with. The team has been running on fumes, free agents and short-term trades ever since.

At least Iginla, Kipper and Darryl gave us a 5 year reprieve from what was destined to be a 12 year rebuilding project.

If one is to be honest about the current state of the franchise, then you know that a late round 1st or a decent prospect is not enough to reverse the long term cycle that is coming.

Let's hope we draft better next time around.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

When you write Ken King's a "dick and a bully" with nothing to back it up other than it's something your buddies told you, yeah, it's extraordinary; extraordinarily defamatory.

Claiming someone else needs to present some type of evidence to refute it when you have nothing to prove it yourself is asinine. You're a guy on the internet saying crap about someone offline with nothing to actually defend you're saying. Not exactly a rarity, so I'd say his eye-rolling reaction to what you said was entirely appropriate.

I didn't say he was, i stated i was told he was. big difference. I also know the stories behind some of the things he's done and to who. there is no way that he or anyone could refute what happened. I can't be held libel for the truth.

if someones going to comment back to me with "Here we go..." and nothing further to say, then yes, i think they definitely should share any experience they've had that contradicts what i said.
and yes, i'll repeat it. from what iv'e heard, KK is a dick and a bully!