Notes: Ken King (Iginla, New Building)

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

amazing how Ken King's reputation around here has changed in recent years...

I think people are just sick of hearing the same damn thing every time.

Stay the course.

Wont trade Iginla.

Anything can happen.

New building.

Big plans.

Years away.

Nothing to report on financing.

Multiple locations as options.

Prefer downtown location.

The GD flags on the Jerseys. Remember when those were temporary. Temporary every year for so long fans just stopped asking about when they would be changed.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Buff

Just like the Flames won with Lanny when he was well past his prime, the Flames can win with Iginla as he is in decline. The problem between those two is that the Flames had a lot of talent to take over the load when Lanny was declining, whereas today the talent is lacking in comparison to that of 1989. To do so now would take a lot of change.

In 1986/87 when Lanny really started to decline, the Flames had the following players 25 or under and playing professional hockey:

Joe Nieuwendyk;
Gary Roberts;
Brian Bradley;
Perry Berezan;
Gary Suter
Brett Hull
Al MacInnis;
Mike Vernon;
Carey Wilson;
Joel Otto;
Mike Bullard;
Jim Peplinksi;
Jamie Macound;
Steve Bozek;
Tim Hunter; and
the great Doug Dadswell

With Loob, Reinhart, Sheehy, and Patterson all 26

The current Flames have the following players under 25:

Baertschi;
Horak;
Brodie;
Backlund;
Byron;
Irving;
Jones;
Butler;
Street;

With Cervenka, Comeau and Taylor all 26.

Talent lacking would be an understatement, more like there is literally no talent to take over. The Flames making the playoffs in Iginla's waning years would be the equivalent of the 89 team winning the Cup.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by atb

That's a bit frustrating to read.

This team is Iginla's for as long as he is on it. It will be really hard for any other player to step up into a leadership role with him still here. We've already seen this season, and in the past few seasons, that Iginla just doesn't get up to play every single game, or even the majority of games. Whether this is due to age, or other factors, it's not only reflected in his play but also how the whole team plays.

There's no doubt what Iginla means to the city, and that rafter space is already reserved for his jersey. This isn't going to change whether he spends his entire career as a Flame or goes elsewhere for the remainder of his career. It's bizzaro thinking that it's better to hold onto a declining asset until there is no value left as oppose to getting a return that will help the team move forward in the long run.

Management and Ownership really need to think about the Flames post-Iginla, because right now I don't see a plan in place (our prospects are nice but nothing proven) and it's a bit scary.

This is a really good post; If Iggy is going to stay with the organization, at some point the Flames need to seriously look at creating or bringing in players with the ability to lead the team. I thought Backlund has really taken a step in the right direction in this regard, but the efforts we are seeing from Tanguay, Cammalleri is not acceptable. The last thing we need is to miss the playoffs again by 2 or 3 points because our leaders don't have enough inspiration to take the team to the next level of consistency and commitment. We have taken some steps in the right direction in terms of talent and ability but we don't have players that epitomize sacrifice.

One only has to look at last seasons LA Kings to see the kind of commitment, consistency required of the players to go all the way. Our best players still seem to be stuck in a zone where they just go ahead and take nights off namely every 2nd or 3rd game. It's frustrating to say the least!

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by zamler

Did they happen to notice we can't seem to get into the playoffs?

I think the way the Flames see it, they were on the brink of the playoffs (9th place)... if they had just a few more goals, or just an extra win, or if they were in the Eastern conference, they would be in the playoffs.... then anything can happen. All they need to do is be a little bit better and they'd be in the playoffs... and they make up that margin with UFA signings.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

. Now it seems the opinion of him is a useless figurehead, doesn't get results, and frankly doesn't care for results either. Just wants a sold out building, still trying to ride the high from one playoff run a decade ago.

And I have to admit, the way they have mismanaged assets under his tutelage the last 3 seasons when the ship started sinking, has proven time and again that the latter is true.

Ken King is a businessman... under his presidency the Flames have continually sold out the venue, made money of of licensing, expanded their entertainment footprint (Stamps, Roughnecks, etc. etc.)... for a businessman that seems like a pretty solid tenure.

The Flames are a business and as a business it's primary goal is not to "win championships" it's to make money. Now making money is a whole lot easier when you have extra productions (AKA Playoff Home Games) but honestly if I were Flames ownership why would I show someone whose done his job admirably (from a profit/loss stantpoint) the door? Until the Flames go from continually in the black to continually in the red Ken Kings job is probably pretty safe so long as he wants it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Ken King is a businessman... under his presidency the Flames have continually sold out the venue, made money of of licensing, expanded their entertainment footprint (Stamps, Roughnecks, etc. etc.)... for a businessman that seems like a pretty solid tenure.

The Flames are a business and as a business it's primary goal is not to "win championships" it's to make money. Now making money is a whole lot easier when you have extra productions (AKA Playoff Home Games) but honestly if I were Flames ownership why would I show someone whose done his job admirably (from a profit/loss stantpoint) the door? Until the Flames go from continually in the black to continually in the red Ken Kings job is probably pretty safe so long as he wants it.

Ken King gets a lot of extra credit for a stronger Canadian dollar and Kipper turning this team around.

[Southside]

2 things.

1. Rule of 'investing' - sell high.

2. No wonder Iggy seems so content.

[1stLand]

If the Flames want to go the Route of "Lanny McDonald" with Iginla, I think it is only fair that Iginla be forced to grow a Mustache

[Tinordi]

The sunk cost fallacy alive and well. You'd think King would be a better businessman?

[Saqe]

"We didn't invest 80 Million dollars in Iginla to send him off to another team to win there"

This statement, if true, is incredibly stupid. I mean you don´t keep an old machine running in the factory just because it was once the shiniest one, you make a new investment. That´s just stubborn as hell to me.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Here we go...

take it or leave it. I trust the opinion of the people who tell me these things. if you have any personal experience to refute it, please feel free to share.

[Red Slinger]

Re: Iginla

What is he supposed to say? "Yes, we're thinking about trading Iginla. He's an anchor that is dragging down the team. We'll be looking for the best possible deal at he deadline before he has even less value on the market..." Saying something to that effect could possibly reduce the Flames leverage in a trade.

Unlike the Oilers, generally the Flames don't do their negotiating (either about arena's or players) in the public sphere. King even went on to say that they deliberatly lie about injuries. Why wouldn't they deliberately lie about player availability?

However, if he is telling the truth than it's a foolish position, in my opinion.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

take it or leave it. I trust the opinion of the people who tell me these things. if you have any personal experience to refute it, please feel free to share.

Fairly certain the philosophical burden of proof is on you as the person making the extraordinary claim, not on anyone else here.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The sunk cost fallacy alive and well. You'd think King would be a better businessman?

I doubt he actually believes in this line of reasoning so much as he expects other people to buy it. It's pretty clear the real reason they won't trade Iginla is because his name value makes the owners money.

[FanIn80]

I have serious questions about what was actually said, and the context in which it was said, versus what's been posted here.

[CSharp]

Issue has never been with Iginla in a Flames uniform playing on the ice for the Flames. The issues currently are that there are no supporting casts playing regularly in any given game in any given period on a consistent basis. Secondly, had never had a true #1 centerman since back in the mid-90's.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

amazing how Ken King's reputation around here has changed in recent years...

When your team is losing and the fans start getting restless then it will happen

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Re: Iginla

What is he supposed to say? "Yes, we're thinking about trading Iginla. He's an anchor that is dragging down the team. We'll be looking for the best possible deal at he deadline before he has even less value on the market..." Saying something to that effect could possibly reduce the Flames leverage in a trade.

Unlike the Oilers, generally the Flames don't do their negotiating (either about arena's or players) in the public sphere. King even went on to say that they deliberatly lie about injuries. Why wouldn't they deliberately lie about player availability?

However, if he is telling the truth than it's a foolish position, in my opinion.

You say the cliches, they want him here, want him to retire a Flame. You don't say things like "we've invested in him such and such amount and they don't owe it to him to have him go win somewhere"

There are ways to give platitudes, and then there is that.

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Issue has never been with Iginla in a Flames uniform playing on the ice for the Flames. The issues currently are that there are no supporting casts playing regularly in any given game in any given period on a consistent basis. Secondly, had never had a true #1 centerman since back in the mid-90's.

You are right. Let's trade Baerstchi & a 1st Round Pick for a ***TRUE #1 CENTER*** to play with Iginla. Then he can be a 50 goal scorer again.

Its not enough that Iginla plays on a line with one of the best passer's in the Game (Tanguay) or that we give Iginla the most powerplay and icetime on the team.

Giving Iggy a 1st line center (True #1 Center) would cure all of team's ills.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Issue has never been with Iginla in a Flames uniform playing on the ice for the Flames. The issues currently are that there are no supporting casts playing regularly in any given game in any given period on a consistent basis. Secondly, had never had a true #1 centerman since back in the mid-90's.

I think there has definitely been issues with Iginla's on ice play. You don't? Really?