[Update: Approved] First Leg of the Green Line LRT

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Its the city of Calgary, can we expect anything less?

Do the other old men at Tims in the morning chuckle at this?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Couldn't a large portion of people who drive Centre St. in/out of downtown just take the Green Line?

If we're just expecting traffic to stay exactly the same once the Green Line exists... what's the point of the Green Line? I think the idea is that you give more people an option to take transit, right?

Once it's built out, yes absolutely.

But if you're only building it up to 16 Ave, how do you expect the rest of NC Calgary to access it? Meanwhile, you're cutting off 50% of the capacity going into downtown via Centre Street for cars AND existing BRT buses (servicing a far higher number of people)?

[Rando]

Cutting off all traffic is incredibly short sighted. I know some of you want to live in a transit utopia but there has to be a balance.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Once it's built out, yes absolutely.

But if you're only building it up to 16 Ave, how do you expect the rest of NC Calgary to access it? Meanwhile, you're cutting off 50% of the capacity going into downtown via Centre Street for cars AND existing BRT buses (servicing a far higher number of people)?

I don't really know, some people could drive to the nearest station instead of directly into downtown, so there is that option (which many people nearish other train lines choose to do now). Though that's not really perfect.

I'm not saying it's not an issue, I just don't see it being a huge issue. I have added "traffic and construction and traffic construction" to the "death and taxes" mantra though, so my commute time could increase by 30% and I probably wouldn't even start to notice.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't really know, some people could drive to the nearest station instead of directly into downtown, so there is that option (which many people nearish other train lines choose to do now). Though that's not really perfect.

I'm not saying it's not an issue, I just don't see it being a huge issue. I have added "traffic and construction and traffic construction" to the "death and taxes" mantra though, so my commute time could increase by 30% and I probably wouldn't even start to notice.

The Green line was supposed to get people who live in the NW area into downtown without having to drive. This version does nothing to help them. It's a lazy solution that doesn't get rid of the bottleneck up North.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

The Green line was supposed to get people who live in the NW area into downtown without having to drive. This version does nothing to help them. It's a lazy solution that doesn't get rid of the bottleneck up North.

Dumb question, there is already a C-Train line that goes to the NW.... so... why was the Green Line to take people from NW to downtown? Or do you mean North-Central folks? When I commuted Centre Street/Edmonton Trail it was a dream compared to coming up McLeod, Elbow, Crow from the South.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't really know, some people could drive to the nearest station instead of directly into downtown, so there is that option (which many people nearish other train lines choose to do now). Though that's not really perfect.

I'm not saying it's not an issue, I just don't see it being a huge issue. I have added "traffic and construction and traffic construction" to the "death and taxes" mantra though, so my commute time could increase by 30% and I probably wouldn't even start to notice.

But there won’t be any stations north of 16 Ave with stage 1. And there may not be for a long time, depending on when stage 2 begins.

Unless you’re suggesting people in NC drive to a nearby BRT stop and take the bus in. That has always been an option; if the goal is to increase ridership by creating an even bigger bottleneck down centre street, it’s an interesting strategy to say the least...

[Torture]

I'm honestly a bit torn. I'm a huge fan of building the Green Line and it's alignment up Centre Street. But diverting cars to Edmonton Trail and 10th kind of sucks because both are a jam in the morning as is. I always knew there'd be some reduced space for cars on centre but expected it to still have a couple of lanes.

I currently take Centre to get downtown from Mount Pleasant so it's definitely going to change things. Some of that traffic will likely end up on transit which helps.

If you had to ask me whether to go forward I'd probably still be a yes, but with a little bit of selfish hesitation.

[nik-]

They've already half assed it by not tunneling, so they might as well go all the way and make it as annoying as possible. #### it, why not.

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by Rando

Cutting off all traffic is incredibly short sighted. I know some of you want to live in a transit utopia but there has to be a balance.

The point of transit is to get other / future cars off the road so I can keep driving to work... lol

Not a fan of this alignment up north, worried it could send more traffic down Memorial in rush hour as well.

[GGG]

The whole thing should be replaced with ROW separated BRT and build the whole thing. The problem is the federal dollars were tied to LRT and not buses.

Less capacity and higher Opex but you could build the entire project at once. The you add rail if required in the future.

[timun]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Based on the update, it confirms for me comments on twitter suggesting that particular section of Centre Street N will be limited to bus and local traffic only.

https://twitter.com/CageYYC/status/1249880135773249537

Where in the doc from the City does it say there won't be any car traffic on Centre St?

During construction I can imagine car traffic will be shut down, but it's pretty clear in the diagrams that vehicular traffic will remain when it's all said and done.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by timun

Where in the doc from the City does it say there won't be any car traffic on Centre St?

There will be local car traffic, but the limited available capacity would not support commuters from farther north using the section of Centre Street south of 16th Ave and the Bridge to enter Downtown. You're down to one lane, versus the current three lanes in the peak direction during peak hours.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Dumb question, there is already a C-Train line that goes to the NW.... so... why was the Green Line to take people from NW to downtown? Or do you mean North-Central folks? When I commuted Centre Street/Edmonton Trail it was a dream compared to coming up McLeod, Elbow, Crow from the South.

Yes, the NW/NE/North Central folks that drive down Center St right now.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by accord1999

There will be local car traffic, but the limited available capacity would not support commuters from farther north using the section of Centre Street south of 16th Ave and the Bridge to enter Downtown. You're down to one lane, versus the current three lanes in the peak direction during peak hours.

Do you know how the city will make sure only local traffic goes through that area?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Do you know how the city will make sure only local traffic goes through that area?

From what I can tell, the City won't institute any regulation against non-local traffic, just that the travel speed will be so bad that most people will use other options.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by accord1999

From what I can tell, the City won't institute any regulation against non-local traffic, just that the travel speed will be so bad that most people will use other options.

That's a cunning plan. Make something so miserable only the incredibly desperate will resort to it. Now that's the government planning I've come to expect.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Couldn't a large portion of people who drive Centre St. in/out of downtown just take the Green Line?

The Green Line doesn't become a commute option for the NC until it reaches at least 64th Avenue.



https://pub-calgary.escribemeetings....cumentId=86498

As it is, Centre Street N is already the busiest bus corridor left in Calgary, where the two main routes on it (3 and 301) accounted for nearly half of all incidents of overcrowding and overloading for 2012-2014. During a good economy, bus service is nearly maxed out.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GGG

The whole thing should be replaced with ROW separated BRT and build the whole thing. The problem is the federal dollars were tied to LRT and not buses.

Less capacity and higher Opex but you could build the entire project at once. The you add rail if required in the future.

I’m not even convinced the Opex crossover point (BRT vs LRT) wouldn’t be decades away, all things considered. The SE LRT will require tons of community shuttles to feed it...IMO a well designed BRT could achieve more bang per passenger buck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I’m not even convinced the Opex crossover point (BRT vs LRT) wouldn’t be decades away, all things considered. The SE LRT will require tons of community shuttles to feed it...IMO a well designed BRT could achieve more bang per passenger buck

Agreed, the theoretical cost savings of LRT is like the theoretical cheaper seat-miles of the A380, it only happens with the right conditions. And if you don't get enough ridership, it ends up being a financial anchor like many of the new American LRT lines.