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Old 02-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #1
Sakari
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Everywhere I go, be it NHL.com, Facebook, or Calgarypuck, I see the same people with the blame being laid on their shoulders. Namely, Miikka Kiprusoff and Jarome Iginla. Are they the issue? Can we blame our troubles so far this season, and in previous seasons, on them, and their age? To answer this question.. I've decided to do some research.


This season, Miikka Kiprusoff has the lowest of all the goaltenders in save percentage. He's 36th in GAA (out of 40). Miikka has clearly underplayed so far this season. Over the years, since he was traded to the Flames, Miikka has been our go-to goaltender and easily the best player on the Flames. He's had a slow start, however, our team is not contributing to his play. Our defense has been very sloppy. Oddly, we see players like Bouwmeester playing extremely well.. and players like Giordano not so much. Obviously something this team lacks is consistency, and Miikka is no exception. Kiprusoff is still an all-world, elite goaltender, around the league. Everyone knows that when he's playing a good game, nothing he can see will go past him. If he's aware of the puck, it will not get through him. Is the engine just taking a while to start, or is this actually the Miikka Kiprusoff that we will be counting on all season?


This is Miikka's Game Log so far this season: (Looking at this and following along will help you understand what im saying.. however it's not necessary because I somewhat explain it)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...22013&view=log

It shows all of his games with the stats he accumulated in them. We see every game but just ONE with bad stats. Lets look back at last season. Obviously we see a much better start, but Kipper still didn't get to his top form until mid season, when posting a .950 svpctg was just another day in the life of Miikka. Let's look at the 09-10 season. We also see a great start, coupled with an entirely good season. Let's look at his Vezina winning year. We only see slightly better stats here. Below is a representation of Kippers stats throughout his Vezina year, and this year, in the first 6 games. The average stats really aren't that much different. The stats only have a .035 difference. Kipper obviously took more shots in 05, but he also let in the same amount of goals. This also shows that in that season they only had 1 more point than we do now in the first 6, even though we're in a bigger rush now it shows we can still pull through

Oct 15 '05 EDM @ CGY W 0 33 33 1.000 1 0 59:54 0 0 0 0
Oct 13 '05 DAL @ CGY O 3 22 19 .864 0 0 64:01 1 2 0 0
Oct 10 '05 CGY @ COL L 7 41 34 .829 0 0 59:54 4 3 0 0
Oct 9 '05 CGY @ DET L 5 36 31 .861 0 0 40:00 1 4 0 0
Oct 7 '05 CGY @ CBJ W 1 20 19 .950 0 0 60:00 0 1 0 0
Oct 5 '05 CGY @ MIN L 5 27 22 .815 0 0 58:45 3 2 0 1
Average .886

Feb 2 '13 CHI @ CGY O 2 19 17 .895 0 0 65:00 2 0 0 0
Jan 31 '13 COL @ CGY L 5 21 16 .762 0 0 59:44 4 1 0 1
Jan 26 '13 EDM @ CGY W 3 20 17 .850 0 0 59:39 1 2 0 0
Jan 23 '13 CGY @ VAN O 2 36 34 .944 0 0 64:59 1 1 0 0
Jan 21 '13 ANA @ CGY L 5 24 19 .792 0 0 59:08 5 0 0 0
Jan 20 '13 SJS @ CGY L 4 29 25 .862 0 0 59:56 2 2 0 0
Average .851

Only one game over .9 save percentage in the first 6 games, and a shutout. Obviously these stats are better, but not by a landslide. And he was named the league's best goaltender. The year after that, he posted very similar stats to the previous season in the first six games. He came out with a .917 svpctg, which is still fairly good. Last season was just one of a handful of fantastic seasons for Miikka. So is age actually catching up to him? Are we stuck with a merely average goaltender until we find a replacement?

My answer is a resounding NO. We're worrying over a slow start. He can pull through, doubting Kiprusoff is the stupidest thing anyone in the NHL can do. We as Flames fans should know that the best. No, he is not the issue. That does not mean we don't need to worry about goaltending, because he's sure to retire soon. Maybe not though, we never know with him.



Jarome Iginla's slow starts have been an issue with this franchise. At the beginning of every year, the word is, Iggy's gotta go! At the end of the year, it's usually a pretty different desire from the fans. He starts slow, he heats up, and does pretty damn well as a captain and a forward for this franchise after his first 10 or so games. However, 10 games is a fifth of this season. Should we keep him? Should he go? Well, the answer's simple.

Iginla has a bumpy record in points. He's gone over and under the 70 point mark many times. In the 01 season, Iginla put up a mere 71 points. He was not expected to become one of the leagues best players. Come 02, he blew the gates off of the NHL with 96 points. He slowed down again, and score 3 seasons of 67 points, 73 points, and again, 67. 67 is a KEY number here, as that is the same amount he put up last season. After this, PEW PEW, 3 seasons, recording 94, 98, and 89 points. Another slow season for Iginla, after these 3 great seasons, with 69 points. Then he comes again, with 86 points. That brings us to last season, with 67 points. Does ONE bad season mean the end for Iginla? NO!

Thinking otherwise is absurd! He's still one of the most fit players in the league. Sure, he's getting up in age, but if you're fit, and love the game, age isn't a problem until you really start to get up there. See Teemu Selanne. He had a slow season with the Avs with only 32 points. Come being in a Ducks uniform, he puts up 2 seasons, getting 90 plus points, being 34-35 years old! Iginla should be no exception. Give him a few more seasons, I bet in at least one he hits the 80 point mark again. Maybe more.

The answer, once again, is NO.

The point in all this is that Iginla and Kiprusoff are not our problem, people saying we need to trade them to begin a rebuild, they are our core, they are a skilled core, even though they are old. This season, Iginla really hasn't been bad. He's worked hard, and goalies are lucky he hasn't scored yet. Kiprusoff has only playing one or two bad games. They can both bounce back. They both will bounce back. Jumping to conclusions this fast is ridiculous.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #2
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Yes. Please close thread.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:59 PM   #3
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so...according to your analysis what is the problem?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #4
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So you think they need to re-shuffle the deck chairs again?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #5
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When the same issues have been reoccurring since 05-06, and there are only two guys left from then, then you've got a big target at what is wrong with the team. Whether things change this year and things are different is yet to be seen, but the scrutiny that they have accrued is warranted and deserved.

If the same story gets replayed this year, the Flames should wholeheartedly move on from them regardless of how much loyalty they have in the fan base.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #6
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Holy wall of text Batman!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:06 PM   #7
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We've been having these problems for 20 something years, not just since Iginla was traded onto the Flames.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #8
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the Flames problem has been drafting and development

the mistake Iginla and Kiprusoff made was being the two best players in an organization that didn't have enough talent
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakari View Post
We've been having these problems for 20 something years, not just since Iginla was traded onto the Flames.
You might want to do some research on why the young guns era was the young guns era. The flames now spend to the cap year after year.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #10
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #11
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Id like to keep Iginla, rather trade Kipper still think he has more trade value
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakari View Post
We've been having these problems for 20 something years, not just since Iginla was traded onto the Flames.
The Flames, since the last lockout, have had enough skill/depth that they should've made the playoffs in every year and won the division a few times. Yet each time they've choked. Now yes, that has been happening since 1990, 2004 being the exception, but there has been something that has kept the Flames from being as good as they have looked on paper.

A former excuse was the coaching staff, which has been wholly changed a couple times before this year. Same results.

Some of our other long term guys like Langkow and Regehr etc might have been an issue. Those guys are gone. Same results

The GM has been poor in talent evaluation, he's gone and Feaster's in. Same results.

The only thing that isn't different is Kipper and Iginla. If this nonsense continues, there's only one thing that is still unchanged, and that's the leadership on the team. That must be changed, even if it hurts in the short term if we continue to suck.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Id like to keep Iginla, rather trade Kipper still think he has more trade value
If the flames still want to keep their mandate of being competitive, keeping kipper is the way to go.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
the Flames problem has been drafting and development

the mistake Iginla and Kiprusoff made was being the two best players in an organization that didn't have enough talent
That sums up my feelings as well. With Suitter trading away picks and drafting poorly we don't have any players ready to assume the role Iginla has. Baertschi could be our best bet but that is still years away.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
the Flames problem has been drafting and development

the mistake Iginla and Kiprusoff made was being the two best players in an organization that didn't have enough talent
From 2007-2011 we had A LOT of talent
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #16
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They're not the problem. The problem is lack of succession. Kiprusoff should not be required to play 70+ games and some young players should be pushing Iginla to the 2nd line by now.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #17
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The problems are many but Iginla and Kiprusoff are not apart of it.

The biggest problem this team has had is that they drafted poorly for at least a decade (closer to 2 decades). This problem spiraled and spawned other problems.

The poor drafting forced the team to acquire talent via trade and free agency. When you get players via trade you are forced to move at least some picks in the process. Building via trade also means you have to make more trades than teams with talent in their prospect pipeline which increases the chances of bad trades (every team makes em but bad trades are more common when you have to make more deals to stay competitive). When you get players via free agency you have to essentially be a top bidder so you have to overpay in dollars (and in cap hit) and like with trades the more free agents you sign, the more poor signings you will see.

If the Flames had drafted better we would have had better (and cheaper) talent and would have had the cap space and assets to being in the players we would have needed to put this team over the top.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #18
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No.

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Old 02-05-2013, 04:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuss275 View Post
If the flames still want to keep their mandate of being competitive, keeping kipper is the way to go.
Whats competitve? Falling short of the playoffs for a possible 4th straight year? If we are closer to 15th then 8th I think the mandate will change. I understand Kipper is a good goalie and helps us keep closer to the playoff dream, but in reality he is no Martin Brodeur, and we have keepers coming up through the system that need a chance.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Caged Great View Post
The Flames, since the last lockout, have had enough skill/depth that they should've made the playoffs in every year and won the division a few times. Yet each time they've choked. Now yes, that has been happening since 1990, 2004 being the exception, but there has been something that has kept the Flames from being as good as they have looked on paper.

A former excuse was the coaching staff, which has been wholly changed a couple times before this year. Same results.

Some of our other long term guys like Langkow and Regehr etc might have been an issue. Those guys are gone. Same results

The GM has been poor in talent evaluation, he's gone and Feaster's in. Same results.

The only thing that isn't different is Kipper and Iginla. If this nonsense continues, there's only one thing that is still unchanged, and that's the leadership on the team. That must be changed, even if it hurts in the short term if we continue to suck.
This seems like an overly simplistic way to look at it. You can't treat building a winning hockey team like you're trouble-shooting your car. "Well I've replaced the spark plugs, the cables and the distributor, so it must be the starter." It's entirely possible that from year to year there are different reasons the team doesn't meet expectations as the make up of the team, coaching staff, and progression/regression of players all change to varying degrees from year to year.

This isn't to say that Iginla and Kiprusoff are immune to criticism either, as their slow starts season to season obviously impact the team as a whole, but if the success/failure of your team relies solely on the backs of two players then there are bigger issues in the make up of the team as a whole.
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