The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Sure, however it isn't up to you to decide who someone worships.

Society can restrict worship when it promotes hatred. In this case, worship is promoting criminal negligence and should be assessed similarly.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I haven't really followed this case, but their religion is anti-medicine? What church do they go to?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

Society can restrict worship when it promotes hatred. In this case, worship is promoting criminal negligence and should be assessed similarly.

Except, was it their religious worship that promoted the death of their son? No, it was their belief in a stupid internet movement. So should we restrict access to the internet?

Should we then also restrict access to Mosques because of the lunatics that went over seas to join Isis, or that members of the Toronto 18 all came out of downtown Toronto Mosques?

And suddenly you have to ask that who decides what promoting hatred actually means, because you'd better have a flint hard definition of it before you start shuttering churches.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I haven't really followed this case, but their religion is anti-medicine? What church do they go to?

Their interpretation of their religion is anti-medicine. Which is why the issue is possibly not their church itself, but their participation in it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by SebC

Society can restrict worship when it promotes hatred. In this case, worship is promoting criminal negligence and should be assessed similarly.

I haven't read that the church was responsible for believing in this bad science, they are likely Mormon I believe, and there are plenty of them who believe in science and are Doctors, Nurses and other healthcare professionals (if you consider a pharmacist a professional!). The church's doctrines may be backwards but they aren't responsible for these two idiots horrible decisions. They are solely responsible for their child's death. However it isn't a responsibility that was borne out of maliciousness or hatred, rather out of ignorance. That is a much harder thing to punish because as much as it pains me to say it they are likely good, albeit very, very misguided people who are loving parents who are as dumb as a brick and shouldn't be trusted to make medical decisions, which the judge obviously agrees with as well.

[Minnie]

Just reading a few comments online, on different articles and fb pages, the Stephans' included. All this natter about "boosting the immune system." A boosted immune system is not a goal to strive toward. My daughter has a "boosted" immune system - it's called multiple auto-immune disorders.

[CaptainCrunch]

The biggest thing that horrifies me about these two idiots, oh wait two things.

1) That they believe that they were in the right and are casting blame everywhere else. The government fixed the case. The ambulance wasn't equipt to save their son. They refuse to take responsibility for literally murdering their boy.

2) That when you look at their business website, they're shilling drugs to fix things like depression and bipolar disorders and other extremely serious mental illnesses. They're selling witch craft and hope to cure things that have serious and severe consequences if they're not treated properly. I can see people going in to buy their bullspit cures without a doctors supervision and then reaping the consequences of these two idiots ignorance and greed.

Personally, I wish there was a way for the judge to retract their business licenses more then anything else.

[troutman]

Ezekiel's parents still haven't complied and posted judge's ruling

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...-judges-ruling

[CaptainCrunch]

these people are thoroughly unlikeable and unsympathetic.

Its all about them and their stupid arse backwards ######ed (Yes this word which is horrible to use is pretty perfect in this case) beliefs.

Haul em back into the courtroom and give them 2 hours to get the posting up.

I don't know what the judge can do at this point, but it would be nice if he could reopen the sentencing.

"since you dummies didn't comply with a part of the sentence. I'm giving the husband 4 years in a Max Security Prison and 2 years to the wife. I'm also ordering their business to be burned to the ground"

It would be nice. These are actually two horrible people in my mind. Not because of their actions leading to the death of their child. But their blind arrogance in believing that they're the victims and in the face of actual medical proof continue to believe that their actions didn't lead to the death of their kid and this is some kind of government conspiracy against the natural medicine industry.

If we could bring back the stock and public shaming in this case, I would be all for it.

[puffnstuff]

Would they not now be in contempt of court? How does that work?

[CaptainCrunch]

If the judge would have given then a longer sentence with parole eligibility set lower he could have sent the old man back to jail for breaking his conditions of release.

But I don't know what the judge can do now.

These people, I'm sorry, they're kinda scummy, they're putting their beliefs ahead of the fact that they without a doubt killed their son.

[Cheese]

The judge didnt specify a timeline to post his ruling. Im assuming the couples lawyer has suggested they wait until the last second, which would be her 90 day sentence.
Toss em both in the can!

[Kjesse]

Crown appeals the sentence:

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/...-month-old-son

Quotes from the Notice of Appeal:

“The sentence is not proportionate to the gravity of the offence, or to the degree of responsibility of the offender and is unfit,” the Crown states in its notice appealing both sentences.

It also says the punishments don’t do enough to deter others from committing similar crimes.

“The sentencing judge gave insufficient weight to denunciation and deterrence,” it says.

Justice Rodney Jerke also “underemphasized, or failed to give weight to, relevant aggravating factors … (and) overemphasized mitigating factors.”

[CaptainCrunch]

Good, give em both multi year sentences, force their business to go under, and protect the remaining kids from the stupidity of these people.

Sorry, but they just really piss me off.

[MBates]

It will be very interesting if the Crown decides to try to submit fresh evidence at the sentence appeal (including printouts of the websites which essentially openly subvert the legitimacy of the trial court) or if the Court itself directs the preparation of what is referred to as a 'post-sentence report' which would essentially amount to a probation officer compiling a summary of how things have gone during the sentence prior to the hearing of the appeal.

In either case, the sentencing positions of the offenders could be significantly worse before the court of appeal than they were before the trial judge.

[troutman]

FTC - Enforcement Policy Statement on Marketing Claims for OTC Homeopathic Drugs
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/doc..._statement.pdf

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...omeopathy-win/

Here is the key part:

The policy statement explains that the FTC will hold efficacy and safety claims for OTC homeopathic drugs to the same standard as other products making similar claims. That is, companies must have competent and reliable scientific evidence for health-related claims, including claims that a product can treat specific conditions. The statement describes the type of scientific evidence that the Commission requires of companies making such claims for their products.

That was all they had to do, and all we were asking for. Hold homeopathic products to the same requirement for evidence to back any clinical claims that they make. In essence, all we wanted was for them to do their job. The FTC now seems willing to do just that.

They further explain that companies can make claims for products based on things other than reliable scientific evidence, but that they then have to clearly explain the basis of those claims:

However, the policy statement also notes that “the FTC has long recognized that marketing claims may include additional explanatory information to prevent the claims from being misleading. Accordingly, it recognizes that an OTC homeopathic drug claim that is not substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence might not be deceptive if the advertisement or label where it appears effectively communicates that: 1) there is no scientific evidence that the product works; and 2) the product’s claims are based only on theories of homeopathy from the 1700s that are not accepted by most modern medical experts.

In essence, the net effect of the labeling on the product cannot be misleading to the consumer.

[Street Pharmacist]

I hope the Canadian competition bureau takes note. Health Canada has abdicated is responsibility, so hopefully we get the same thing here

[FireGilbert]

Looks like these idiots and their idiot supporters are back in the news. Disgusting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...peal-1.4016442

They are appealing that the length of time between conviction and charge was unreasonable as I guess it is too hard to appeal the fact they are horrible parents that killed their son through stupidity and negligence. The Crown has also appealed the original sentence was too short. Hopefully this is successful as four months in prison for David and 3 months house arrest for Collet was an absolutely pathetic sentence for taking the life of a child.

[FlamesAddiction]

I felt sorry for them at first having lost a child due to falling for something like they did which had tragic consequences, but not only have they not learned anything, but they are still playing the victim (and loving it it seems). To hell with these people.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by troutman

Ezekiel's parents still haven't complied and posted judge's ruling

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...-judges-ruling

So from that article:

David Stephan called his father before phoning 911, but told the operator that an ambulance wasn’t needed.

So WTF were you phoning 911 for then??