Ukraine Presidential Crackdown Violence. Russia Invades Ukraine

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Like real Russians, living in Russia?


Don't get me wrong I ain't trying to be a dick, but I find that "insert nationality here" that don't live in the country often have a different or romanticized view of life back in that country.

It was TV on the street interviews in Russia. Whether they were really serious or not or just trying to justify their situation, I couldn't say.

[FlameOn]

Putin now publicly admits the annexation of Crimea was planned well ahead of the referendum. All of those green men in Crimea were Russian soldiers. Not that this changes anything now, but it's vindication of all of the reports and a hit against the Russian propaganda and misinformation of the time.

Vladimir Putin has admitted for the first time that the plan to annex Crimea was ordered weeks before the referendum on self-determination.

Crimea was formally absorbed into Russia on 18 March, to international condemnation, after unidentified gunmen took over the peninsula. Mr Putin said on TV he had ordered work on "returning Crimea" to begin at an all-night meeting on 22 February.

Speaking last year, Mr Putin had said only that he took his final decision about Crimea after secret, undated opinion polls showed 80% of Crimeans favoured joining Russia.

The findings of these polls were borne out by the outcome of the referendum on 16 March, he told Russian state TV last April. "Little green men" appeared in Crimea before the referendum.

Ukraine's former president Viktor Yanukovych fled Kiev on 22 February 2014. Speaking in a forthcoming Russian TV documentary, Mr Putin said a meeting with officials had been held on 22-23 February to plan the rescue of Ukraine's deposed president.

"I invited the leaders of our special services and the defence ministry to the Kremlin and set them the task of saving the life of the president of Ukraine, who would simply have been liquidated," he said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226

[Hessen]

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hessen

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels

I like this quote but this says it didn't actually happen.

Goebbels wouldn’t have said that in public. He always maintained that propaganda had to be truthful. That doesn't mean he didn’t lie, but it would be a pretty poor propagandist who publicly proclaimed that he was going to lie. I know of no evidence that he actually said it. I haven’t read everything Goebbels wrote, but I have been through a lot of it.

Goebbels actually accused others of using the technique. In a 1941 article titled “ Churchill’s Lie Factory,” he wrote:

“One should not as a rule reveal one’s secrets, since one does not know if and when one may need them again. The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.”

http://bytwerk.com/gpa/falsenaziquotations.htm

[FlameOn]

War of words continues with the British considering publishing the financial information for the Russian elite and Putin's extensive financial holdings directly to the Russian public, not that the Russian people are likely to believe any of it though.

Britain may broadcast the financial secrets of Russia’s ruling elite as part of the information war against the Putin regime, the Foreign Secretary has indicated.

Philip Hammond said he was interested by the idea of publicising the wealth of the Russian president’s inner circle in order to embarrass them in front of their people, as part of the response to the ongoing incursion into eastern Ukraine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz3U5jFj0XV

Russia is now reserving the rights to deploy nuclear weapons to Crimea. Basically with this Crimea is permanently annexed. Even if Ukraine recovers Donetsk and their Eastern regions, Crimea is definitely off the table.

Russia has the right to deploy nuclear arms in the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea, which Moscow annexed from Ukraine last year, a Foreign Ministry official said on Wednesday, adding he knew of no plans to do so

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...source=twitter

[Muta]

Given Russia's actions since last year, I'm still not sure how FIFA isn't pulling out of that country for the 2018 World Cup. Give it to Brazil or South Africa again, at least they have the modern infrastructure and aren't invading sovereign nations.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Muta

Given Russia's actions since last year, I'm still not sure how FIFA isn't pulling out of that country for the 2018 World Cup. Give it to Brazil or South Africa again, at least they have the modern infrastructure and aren't invading sovereign nations.

If they're not pulling the world cup from Qatar, no way they take it from Russia

[polak]

I could see pretty widespread boycotts of the Russian world cup but I'm sure a lot of teams would still go.

[Thor]

Fighting continues, and Canada could be joining the US and UK in sending troops into the Ukraine to help train the military.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada-prepar...tary-1.3031806

Canada appears set to join a U.S.-led training mission to shore up the capabilities of the battered and bloodied Ukrainian military.

A defence source says the Harper government is expected to announce the deployment of training troops — possibly over 100.

Most of them are expected to be housed at an existing NATO training centre located in Yavoriv, in the western portion of the embattled European country, near the Polish border.

The troops will join American and British soldiers, likely in mid-May.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Defence Minister Jason Kenney are expected to announce the long-anticipated move Tuesday at National Defence headquarters.

It is anticipated the Canadians will offer Ukrainian troops their expertise in countering mines and improvised explosives devices, skills painfully learned during the five-year combat mission in Kandahar.

The new mission could also involve instruction on logistics and military policing, something former defence minister Rob Nicholson hinted at last winter when military planners visited the country to determine how best to help.

[GP_Matt]

200 troops heading to Ukraine on a two year commitment.

[CaptainCrunch]

Decent response, I would assume that Canada will also help with replacement equipment.

[FlameOn]

It appears, as expected, the current peace treaty was just a ruse for Russia to resupply and rearm their forces for a push into Ukraine. Reuters has discovered a base on the Russian border where the Russian army is massing hundreds of tanks, self propelled artillery, RPGs and other heavy weapons. The unit identification markers and plates for the vehicles have all been removed and soldiers are not wearing insignia. The soldiers all have similar appearance and kit to the "rebels" operating in Eastern Ukraine. When the Russians were questioned about this by the press, they were evasive about a response.

Russia's army is massing troops and hundreds of pieces of weaponry including mobile rocket launchers, tanks and artillery at a makeshift base near the border with Ukraine, a Reuters reporter saw this week.

Many of the vehicles have number plates and identifying marks removed while many of the servicemen had taken insignia off their fatigues. As such, they match the appearance of some of the forces spotted in eastern Ukraine, which Kiev and its Western allies allege are covert Russian detachments.

The scene at the base on the Kuzminsky firing range, around 50 km (30 miles) from the border, offers some of the clearest evidence to date of what appeared to be a concerted Russian military build-up in the area.

Earlier this month, NATO military commander General Philip Breedlove said he believed the separatists were taking advantage of a ceasefire that came into force in February to re-arm and prepare for a new offensive. However, he gave no specifics.

Russia denies that its military is involved in the conflict in Ukraine's east, where Moscow-backed separatists have been fighting forces loyal to the pro-Western government in Kiev.

Russia's defense ministry said it had no immediate comment about the build-up. Several soldiers said they had been sent to the base for simple military exercises, suggesting their presence was unconnected to the situation in Ukraine.

Asked by Reuters if large numbers of unmarked weaponry and troops without insignia at the border indicated that Russia planned to invade Ukraine, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said during a conference call with reporters:

"I find the wording of this question, 'if an invasion is being prepared', inappropriate as such."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...edName=topNews

Also this week, Russian soldiers captured by Ukraine have admitted they were under orders from the Kremlin. Russian claims these soldiers were discharged "volunteers" where the soldiers claimed they were not.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...Name=worldNews

[chemgear]

Man, burning the bodies of your own soldiers?!


http://www.bloombergview.com/article...ine-aggression

Russia is so desperate to hide its military involvement in Ukraine that it has brought in mobile crematoriums to destroy the bodies of its war dead, say U.S. lawmakers who traveled to the war-torn country this spring.

The U.S. and NATO have long maintained that thousands of Russian troops are fighting alongside separatists inside eastern Ukraine, and that the Russian government is obscuring not only the presence but also the deaths of its soldiers there. In March, NATO Deputy Secretary General Alexander Vershbow told a conference, "Russian leaders are less and less able to conceal the fact that Russian soldiers are fighting -- and dying -- in large numbers in eastern Ukraine."

Hence the extreme measures to get rid of the evidence. “The Russians are trying to hide their casualties by taking mobile crematoriums with them,” House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry told me. “They are trying to hide not only from the world but from the Russian people their involvement.”

[Language]

Putin Signs Law Making It Crime To Report Military Losses From 'Special Operations' During Peacetime

"Slon.ru reports Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed an decree rendering reports of Russian military casualties from "special operations" during peacetime state secrets."

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...osion-in-kiev/

[Locke]

Well...Putin is basically an Island Volcano Fortress away from being a supervillain.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well...Putin is basically an Island Volcano Fortress away from being a supervillain.

How long till the 3rd "Chechen" War?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Man, burning the bodies of your own soldiers?!


http://www.bloombergview.com/article...ine-aggression

Russia is so desperate to hide its military involvement in Ukraine that it has brought in mobile crematoriums to destroy the bodies of its war dead, say U.S. lawmakers who traveled to the war-torn country this spring.

The U.S. and NATO have long maintained that thousands of Russian troops are fighting alongside separatists inside eastern Ukraine, and that the Russian government is obscuring not only the presence but also the deaths of its soldiers there. In March, NATO Deputy Secretary General Alexander Vershbow told a conference, "Russian leaders are less and less able to conceal the fact that Russian soldiers are fighting -- and dying -- in large numbers in eastern Ukraine."

Hence the extreme measures to get rid of the evidence. “The Russians are trying to hide their casualties by taking mobile crematoriums with them,” House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry told me. “They are trying to hide not only from the world but from the Russian people their involvement.”

None of this is a surprise. Read up on Russia's treatment of it's soldiers during the Chechen War(s). I read the term "meatbag" in another thread. It is appropraite to explain how Russia see's her soldiers.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

How long till the 3rd "Chechen" War?

NATO should be fueling this by providing clandestine logistical support.

There are enough dissidents throughout Russia's Eurasian republics to keep them busy for decades and out of European affairs.

Russia is a pretty powerful country, but with some really obvious weak spots. I think Putin will live to regret his behavior.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Locke

Well...Putin is basically an Island Volcano Fortress away from being a supervillain.

Don't know if this has been brought up already, but the Superbowl Ring theft scandal is ridiculous.

Basically, the gist of what happened:

Putin asks Robert Kraft, of the Patriot's, if he can see his Superbowl ring. He then pockets it and walks out, while surrounded by body guards. Putin initially denies any knowledge of the ring, but then later claims it as a gift after it shows up in a museum.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-patriots-ring

He did it just because he could.

[nik-]

NATO should support another Islamic insurgency against Russia?

Umm, let's learn some lessons, shall we?