Russia invades Ukraine

[Harry Lime]

That's an interesting idea. Poland does hold some interest of Belarus on the other border, and NATO troops holding them would either be boots in Ukraine or Belarus itself.

On the other hand, if Moldova actively asks for help, their whole area could be cleared by NATO and eliminate the threat from that border forever, while strengthening Moldovas stability.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think that is pretty much what France was suggesting. Send in soldiers as peace keepers to protect the borders, freeing up Ukrainian soldier for frontline duty.

The theory is that Russia (or Belarus) wouldn't dare attack NATO soldier. I am not so sure that is true though. The world perspective of Russian leaders is hard to predict. It's like trying to predict what a lunatic would do.

[Harry Lime]

I don't think that Russia admits that the soldiers in Moldova are theirs, but rather freedom fighters. The same tactic that they used in Ukraine for the last decade. So if Moldova asks for NATO help to clear them, it's a domestic threat and Russia can bite a lemon.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I don't think that Russia admits that the soldiers in Moldova are theirs, but rather freedom fighters. The same tactic that they used in Ukraine for the last decade. So if Moldova asks for NATO help to clear them, it's a domestic threat and Russia can bite a lemon.

Yeah this is the obvious downside to using false flag operators, you can't really cry foul when something happens to them.

[Playfair]

Russia's army is now 15% bigger than when it invaded Ukraine, says US general
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...l-2024-4%3famp

"The army is actually now larger — by 15 percent — than it was when it invaded Ukraine," US Army Gen. Christopher Cavoli, NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe, told the House Armed Services Committee in a hearing.

"Over the past year, Russia increased its front-line troop strength from 360,000 to 470,000,"

I think the danger is the west underestimating Russia, after Russia underestimated Ukraine. It's not a good situation

[burn_this_city]

They might have more manpower, but they’ve definitely worked their way through a substantial amount of the Soviet inventory.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1778449016071622958

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Russia's army is now 15% bigger than when it invaded Ukraine, says US general
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...l-2024-4%3famp


I think the danger is the west underestimating Russia, after Russia underestimated Ukraine. It's not a good situation

LOL maybe if you substituted nuclear warheads for troops we might have to worry.

I'm sure Ukraine has 2 drones for each of their soldiers.

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

LOL maybe if you substituted nuclear warheads for troops we might have to worry.

I'm sure Ukraine has 2 drones for each of their soldiers.

I see an arrogance in the western world. Russia isn't fighting alone. They are getting weapons channelled in from North Korea and others, in one way shape or form. The whole reason we are in this situation is because the west took Russian aggression far too passively when they entered Crimea.

The West should have stood against aggression then. Now because of a lack of action, especially from Obama at the time who didn't take this situation seriously, we are in this situation. War fatigue is making the west less interested, maybe the wrong word, but it puts the west in a far more dangerous position.

Complacency leads to our own destruction in our personal life, communities, province, or country. It's dangerous

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Playfair

I see an arrogance in the western world. Russia isn't fighting alone. They are getting weapons channelled in from North Korea and others, in one way shape or form. The whole reason we are in this situation is because the west took Russian aggression far too passively when they entered Crimea.

The West should have stood against aggression then. Now because of a lack of action, especially from Obama at the time who didn't take this situation seriously, we are in this situation. War fatigue is making the west less interested, maybe the wrong word, but it puts the west in a far more dangerous position.

Complacency leads to our own destruction in our personal life, communities, province, or country. It's dangerous

Please elaborate how you think the west is in a more dangerous situation since Russia began its war. They are going through their inventory at alarming rates and the west has spent no human capital and war stores are sufficient.

[Language]

It’s infuriating, saddening and utmost illogical how impotent the U.S. has become in regards to helping Ukraine. In many years this will be looked back as a giant blunder, unless of course the entire U.S. administration is under the Russian spell by then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Please elaborate how you think the west is in a more dangerous situation since Russia began its war. They are going through their inventory at alarming rates and the west has spent no human capital and war stores are sufficient.

What Language said.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Please elaborate how you think the west is in a more dangerous situation since Russia began its war. They are going through their inventory at alarming rates and the west has spent no human capital and war stores are sufficient.

Depends how you define "dangerous". One of the mistakes Western politicians, citizens and frankly NATO makes on a consistent basis is assuming that a conflict with russian entails a shooting match, bombs dropping on each other, or tanks rolling over the borders. Yet, russia has been in a conflict with us for years through the various disinformation campaigns, propaganda on a massive scale, and blackmail/bribery of various politicians and their parties. That is infinitely more effective then the military conflict NATO is prepared for.

Turning a blind eye to all that and thinking that as long as russia isn't rolling tanks over the border or dropping nukes means we are "safe", that is what makes it dangerous. Because now you have multiple Western entities ignoring russia's doings as long as nothing is going boom or shots fired. Russia has been eating us internally for years now. It works. And the West is too stupid/lazy to react to it, let alone recognize it's happening. It's in fact being embraced by many people. The russians are sack of ####, but they aren't stupid. They know it's working and it is they who don't have to fire a single shot at us.

Having your democratic institutions eaten alive internally is frankly much more dangerous than any kind of shooting match that could happen. Because we allow it to happen. We laugh at russia because their army is a "paper tiger", yet I believe it is our side that is the paper tiger. All the best planes, tanks, missiles we supposedly have on the ready mean SFA when you have a country like the US ready to vote back in the orange goof who will do much more damage to the US than any kind of nuke could. It's already happened in Slovakia, Netherlands and Hungary. Austria is on it's way. Just wait if/when the US elects Trump again.

I couldn't care less about russia losing a millions tanks or missiles and people saying how we are now safer because they have less equipment. As long as Western countries pretend they are safe and plug their ears when faced with russian information wars, we are in a very dangerous situation because nobody here acts on it. Russian neckbeards will be our undoing at this rate.

[Cheese]

One of my big takeaways from my latest #Ukraine visit is the need to change strategy. Current war strategy is focussed on 'defending Ukraine'. This is now a strategy for defeat and must evolve. 1/10

https://twitter.com/user/status/1778570779086766582

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Depends how you define "dangerous". One of the mistakes Western politicians, citizens and frankly NATO makes on a consistent basis is assuming that a conflict with russian entails a shooting match, bombs dropping on each other, or tanks rolling over the borders. Yet, russia has been in a conflict with us for years through the various disinformation campaigns, propaganda on a massive scale, and blackmail/bribery of various politicians and their parties. That is infinitely more effective then the military conflict NATO is prepared for.

Turning a blind eye to all that and thinking that as long as russia isn't rolling tanks over the border or dropping nukes means we are "safe", that is what makes it dangerous. Because now you have multiple Western entities ignoring russia's doings as long as nothing is going boom or shots fired. Russia has been eating us internally for years now. It works. And the West is too stupid/lazy to react to it, let alone recognize it's happening. It's in fact being embraced by many people. The russians are sack of ####, but they aren't stupid. They know it's working and it is they who don't have to fire a single shot at us.

Having your democratic institutions eaten alive internally is frankly much more dangerous than any kind of shooting match that could happen. Because we allow it to happen. We laugh at russia because their army is a "paper tiger", yet I believe it is our side that is the paper tiger. All the best planes, tanks, missiles we supposedly have on the ready mean SFA when you have a country like the US ready to vote back in the orange goof who will do much more damage to the US than any kind of nuke could. It's already happened in Slovakia, Netherlands and Hungary. Austria is on it's way. Just wait if/when the US elects Trump again.

I couldn't care less about russia losing a millions tanks or missiles and people saying how we are now safer because they have less equipment. As long as Western countries pretend they are safe and plug their ears when faced with russian information wars, we are in a very dangerous situation because nobody here acts on it. Russian neckbeards will be our undoing at this rate.

Great points, but not relevant to the point I was trying to make. Is Russia militarily more capable today than they were on February 23 2022? Russia has always been dangerous, its the reason NATO exists.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leondros

Great points, but not relevant to the point I was trying to make. Is Russia militarily more capable today than they were on February 23 2022? Russia has always been dangerous, its the reason NATO exists.

Large does not equal more capable or dangerous.

I don't think the West and NATO every fear Russian's conventional weapons.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Depends how you define "dangerous". One of the mistakes Western politicians, citizens and frankly NATO makes on a consistent basis is assuming that a conflict with russian entails a shooting match, bombs dropping on each other, or tanks rolling over the borders. Yet, russia has been in a conflict with us for years through the various disinformation campaigns, propaganda on a massive scale, and blackmail/bribery of various politicians and their parties. That is infinitely more effective then the military conflict NATO is prepared for.

Turning a blind eye to all that and thinking that as long as russia isn't rolling tanks over the border or dropping nukes means we are "safe", that is what makes it dangerous. Because now you have multiple Western entities ignoring russia's doings as long as nothing is going boom or shots fired. Russia has been eating us internally for years now. It works. And the West is too stupid/lazy to react to it, let alone recognize it's happening. It's in fact being embraced by many people. The russians are sack of ####, but they aren't stupid. They know it's working and it is they who don't have to fire a single shot at us.

Having your democratic institutions eaten alive internally is frankly much more dangerous than any kind of shooting match that could happen. Because we allow it to happen. We laugh at russia because their army is a "paper tiger", yet I believe it is our side that is the paper tiger. All the best planes, tanks, missiles we supposedly have on the ready mean SFA when you have a country like the US ready to vote back in the orange goof who will do much more damage to the US than any kind of nuke could. It's already happened in Slovakia, Netherlands and Hungary. Austria is on it's way. Just wait if/when the US elects Trump again.

I couldn't care less about russia losing a millions tanks or missiles and people saying how we are now safer because they have less equipment. As long as Western countries pretend they are safe and plug their ears when faced with russian information wars, we are in a very dangerous situation because nobody here acts on it. Russian neckbeards will be our undoing at this rate.

Perfectly stated.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Large does not equal more capable or dangerous.

I don't think the West and NATO every fear Russian's conventional weapons.

I love how revisionist people can be. There is no way prior to Feb 2022 people would say Russia's military was not in the top 3 in the world. I think today we can firmly say the world not only misjudged their power at that point, but also couple this with the fact they have also lost a lot of sophisticated aircraft and naval vessels even before considering artillery, tanks, and other land craft.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leondros

I love how revisionist people can be. There is no way prior to Feb 2022 people would say Russia's military was not in the top 3 in the world. I think today we can firmly say the world not only misjudged their power at that point, but also couple this with the fact they have also lost a lot of sophisticated aircraft and naval vessels even before considering artillery, tanks, and other land craft.

I’m not using revisionist history.

I’m using I lived it history.

The JNA was I think the 4th largest army at the collapse of Yugo, their kit was ####. Appalling quality crap, they just had a lot of it.

It solidified my opinion that while it would hurt NATO would be the Warsaw Pact in a conventional war.

It has always been and continues to be the threat of Nuclear weapons that build Moscow’s “strength”

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I’m not using revisionist history.

I’m using I lived it history.

The JNA was I think the 4th largest army at the collapse of Yugo, their kit was ####. Appalling quality crap, they just had a lot of it.

It solidified my opinion that while it would hurt NATO would be the Warsaw Pact in a conventional war.

It has always been and continues to be the threat of Nuclear weapons that build Moscow’s “strength”

The also had #### soldiers. A largely conscripted military with an automatic 5 year prison sentence for refusing. Probably a similar situation with the Russian rank and file guys. Under qualified and resentful, and the ones who do want to be there, are there for the wrong reasons.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Russia's army is now 15% bigger than when it invaded Ukraine, says US general
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...l-2024-4%3famp


I think the danger is the west underestimating Russia, after Russia underestimated Ukraine. It's not a good situation

Larger, but diluted with soldiers with less training including conscripts that probably don't share the resolve of their superiors. And they wont have enough modern/functional equipment to arm this larger army with. We're already seeing degradation on that front as they reach into their stock of outdated/inferior equipment.

It really does mean much.

Quite frankly, it's a weak flex.